User:ApeKattQuest, MonkeyPython/Spike-fiddles and other Riddles: Difference between revisions
No edit summary |
Reosarevok (talk | contribs) m (Reosarevok moved page User:CatCat/Spike-fiddles and other Riddles to User:ApeKattQuest, MonkeyPython/Spike-fiddles and other Riddles: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "CatCat" to "ApeKattQuest, MonkeyPython") |
||
(12 intermediate revisions by one other user not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
= Rebab = |
|||
How many r*b*b's do we have?:<br> |
|||
There is a lot of confusion about instruments named [[R*bab|r*bab]], historically "rebab" was a generic named for chiefly bowed string instruments, from this evolved also plucked variant (see rubab), originally arabic, it traveled around the world and became the origin of many stringed instrument-families.<br> |
|||
<br> |
<br> |
||
There are chiefly 3 large groupings:<br> |
|||
long-necked rabab (spikefiddle rebab)<br> |
|||
lute like ____ where the rebec evolved from (herein the lutes)<br> |
|||
* Stick, small soundbox, spike-fiddle bowed family, chiefly south-east asian - from here evolved all kinds of spike fiddles, including such where the spike is vestigial, also south-eastern europe. |
|||
double chested '''rabab''' (pearshaped lute rubab)<br> |
|||
** to wit the ghijak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q54995817 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghijak en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/0d766870-3021-47ce-bd51-78d2d2484e1b mb] and the Indonesian Rebab, probably the chinese huquin as well. |
|||
* Large, short neck, boat-shaped or indented bowed (but including plucked variant) lutes, chiefly middle-eastern south asian - from here many various folk fiddles, plucked lutes, both of which also inspired evolution of european instruments. |
|||
** herein the sarinda, sarangi, esraj, ravaj, among these the guitar and vielle families. |
|||
* Medium, varying neck pear-shaped bowed lute, chiefly middle-eastern, european - from here many bowed and plucked families. |
|||
** alike kamanche, byzantian lyra, presumably sitar, (thus [[User:CatCat/v*na|vina]]) barbat, oud and the actual lute itself. possibly including such as mandolin and balalaika. |
|||
<br> |
<br> |
||
So:<br> |
|||
<br> |
<br> |
||
* Spikefiddle, to wit the ghijak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q54995817 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghijak en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/0d766870-3021-47ce-bd51-78d2d2484e1b mb] and the Indonesian [[R*bab|Rebab]] belong... |
|||
* Long necked barbed lute (pearshaped lutes!) kamanche, ravaj, read [[User:CatCat/v*na|vina]] |
|||
* Short necked fiddle boat-shaped /double chested lutes, herein the sarinda and sarangi families. |
|||
= Classification aspect = |
|||
(make into a table eventually) |
|||
== Spike-fiddle== |
|||
= Classification aspect = |
|||
Long neck, small soundbox, spike, possibly vestigial: |
|||
== spikefiddle - long neck, tiny soundbox == |
|||
* Indonesian rebab |
* Indonesian rebab |
||
* đàn gáo |
* đàn gáo |
||
Line 61: | Line 67: | ||
== Bowed Lute (pear shaped) == |
|||
== bowl (lyra, divergent) larger lute-like soundbox shorter neck == |
|||
Bowl or pear-shaped, (lyra<ref>don't confuse with lyr<i>e</i>!</ref>) larger lute-like soundbox, often shorter neck: |
|||
* Byzantine lyra/lira |
* Byzantine lyra/lira |
||
* Gadulka |
* Gadulka |
||
Line 90: | Line 99: | ||
* cittern, gitten, etc guitar |
* cittern, gitten, etc guitar |
||
*etc |
*etc |
||
== Bowed/plucked Lute (boat shaped) == |
|||
== double (lute, divergent) two bodied or hollowed out, concave shape, thick short neck == |
|||
Double, two bodied or hollowed out, concave or Boat shape, large soundbox, short neck: |
|||
* kobyz |
* kobyz |
||
* rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab) |
* rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab) |
||
Line 109: | Line 120: | ||
== harplike/veena == |
|||
* taus/mayuri veena/b |
|||
* yazh |
|||
* saung/saung-gauk |
|||
== lyre like == |
== lyre like == |
||
it's currently unclear how these belong |
|||
* crwth |
* crwth |
||
* rotta |
* rotta |
||
== Notes == |
== Notes == |
||
Line 129: | Line 142: | ||
some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap) |
some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap) |
||
= Evolution Aspect= |
|||
UNDER CONSTRCTION |
|||
<table border="1"> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Cell 1</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
</table> |
|||
<table border="1"> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>'''sarangi''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q608650 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarangi en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/79f5331d-d17c-4c2e-8ad0-44144432a754 mb]<br> |
|||
hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi, <br> |
|||
sarangi type:<br> |
|||
kashmir (saran)<br> |
|||
south afghanistan (sarang)<br> |
|||
jammu (saranga)<br></td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200205230058if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/sarangi_india_2.jpg</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>'''sarinda''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q348878 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarinda en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-856 jira], is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?)<br> |
|||
widespread:<br> |
|||
afghanistan, pakistan and north india (sarinda)<br> |
|||
: pakistani baluchistan (saroz)<br> |
|||
: iranian baluchistan (sorud (soruz)) derived from qobuz but more like indian types in use and construction, used for ritual<br> |
|||
: pakistani sind (surando) sindi and baluchi models have deeper upper bouts than sarinda<br> |
|||
rajasthan (surinda) three main strings<br> |
|||
Assam (sareja)<br> |
|||
: ''bengal (variant long necked svaraj)(belongs to sitar maybe?)''<br> |
|||
manipur north-east india (sananta)<br> |
|||
: east & north india (banam)<br> |
|||
: nepal (sarangi)<br></td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191219134928if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sarinda.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>nepali sarangi [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7423131 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarangi_(Nepali) en] MB!(?)<br> |
|||
type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191218153957if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sarangi_nepal.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>ghaychak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1521728 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaychak en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/d50ba107-4930-4e0b-8b3f-ffbea4a1ade1 mb] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-371 jira]</td> |
|||
<td>cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>in its family evolved from the kobyz [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1778051 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobyz en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-439 jira]. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi)<br></td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191217110929if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_k/kobyz.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>dhodro banam aka Santal lute<br> |
|||
east & north india (dhodro banam)</td> |
|||
<td>cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Kyl kyyak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13170382 wd] [https://ky.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8B%D0%BB_%D0%BA%D1%8B%D1%8F%D0%BA ky] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyl_kyyak&oldid=257894745 en] mb!</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Cell 1</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Cell 1</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td> Dramyin, Tungana, Sgrna-snyan [https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/ab0ed8e9-c02e-4824-bf1a-c8bb06f7cfe9 mb]<br> |
|||
<br> |
|||
Folk rabab found in the Himalayas. The number of strings varies from 4, 5, 6, or 7. The name also varies, where local versions may be called Damyan, Dramyen, Dranyen, Dramyin (curiously sometimes spelled <u>sgrna-snyan</u>), or Tungana. Manuscripts from the Moghul period indicate that once this form of rabab was very common in northern India.</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200317134335if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sgra_snyan.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Cell 1</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>dotara</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20140604010127if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi2/dotara_i.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>'''svaraj''' fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) </td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>esraj<br> |
|||
a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba<ref name="Esraj på Svenskwiki">https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj</ref><br> |
|||
Ishwari Raj<br> |
|||
</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002214if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/esraj_2.jpg</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Mandar Bahar [http://collections.nmmusd.org/India/2405MandarBahar/MandarBahar2405.html nmm] wd? mb!<br> |
|||
bass esraj</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>dilruba<br> |
|||
Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus<ref name="esraj at en.wiki">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj#History</ref><br> |
|||
Guru Gobind Singh |
|||
</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220220752if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_d/dilruba.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>taus </td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191228042044if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_t/taus.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>mayuri-vina<br></td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191223221916if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_m/mayuri_veena.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>[[User:CatCat/yazh-yazhoo|yazh]]</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220095908if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_y/yazh.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>saung gauk</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200212130253if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/saunggauk.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Cell 1</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>ektara (actually gopichant)</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220232603if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_g/gopichant.gif<br> |
|||
http://web.archive.org/web/20200206004750if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/gopichant3.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>ektar (actually tumbi)</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160416194455if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_t/tumbi.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>dutar</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206003251if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/dutar_2.jpg</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>setar</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160511014833if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/setar_i.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>bin-sitar</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>kamaica</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>ravanhattha</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002924if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/ravanhatta_2.jpg</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>khuur (mongolian fiddles)</td> |
|||
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191218153959if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_m/morin_khuur.gif</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
<tr> |
|||
<td>Cell 1</td> |
|||
<td>Cell 2</td> |
|||
</tr> |
|||
</table> |
|||
= Geographic Aspect = |
|||
I'm going to need some kind of map-tool/widget. |
|||
<br> |
|||
<br> |
|||
<br> |
|||
<br> |
|||
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar. |
Latest revision as of 07:39, 25 March 2024
Rebab
There is a lot of confusion about instruments named r*bab, historically "rebab" was a generic named for chiefly bowed string instruments, from this evolved also plucked variant (see rubab), originally arabic, it traveled around the world and became the origin of many stringed instrument-families.
There are chiefly 3 large groupings:
- Stick, small soundbox, spike-fiddle bowed family, chiefly south-east asian - from here evolved all kinds of spike fiddles, including such where the spike is vestigial, also south-eastern europe.
- Large, short neck, boat-shaped or indented bowed (but including plucked variant) lutes, chiefly middle-eastern south asian - from here many various folk fiddles, plucked lutes, both of which also inspired evolution of european instruments.
- herein the sarinda, sarangi, esraj, ravaj, among these the guitar and vielle families.
- Medium, varying neck pear-shaped bowed lute, chiefly middle-eastern, european - from here many bowed and plucked families.
- alike kamanche, byzantian lyra, presumably sitar, (thus vina) barbat, oud and the actual lute itself. possibly including such as mandolin and balalaika.
Classification aspect
(make into a table eventually)
Spike-fiddle
Long neck, small soundbox, spike, possibly vestigial:
- Indonesian rebab
- đàn gáo
- đàn hồ
- đàn nhị
- salo/saw lo
- saw sam sai
- saw u
- saw duang
- tro khmer
- tro sau
- tro che
- tro sau thom
- tro u
- tro (research)
- jawza
- konya
- sanxian
- erxian
- huqin (family)
- sihu
- yehu
- dihu
- zhonghu
- banhu
- huluhu
- jinghu
- erhu
- gaohu
- kamancheh
- igil/ikili
- sanshin
- shamisen
- kokyu
- yaylı tambur
- ghijak
- ravanahatha
- haegeum
- (afrikan)
- goje
- njarka
- n'ko
- imzad
Bowed Lute (pear shaped)
Bowl or pear-shaped, (lyra[1]) larger lute-like soundbox, often shorter neck:
- Byzantine lyra/lira
- Gadulka
- gudok
- gusle
- sintir
- guimbri
- cretan lyra
- calabrian lira
- dalmatian lijerica
- kemenche
- pontic lyra(k of the black sea)
- politiki lyra (classical k)
- rebec
- rabel
- dutar
- çifteli
- cobza
- kobza/bandurka
- komuz
- qanbūs/gambus
- gabusi
- tambouras -> eg lutes, baglamas etc.
- pandur etc
- tambur etc
- tanpura etc
- indian lute, sitar
- cittern, gitten, etc guitar
- etc
Bowed/plucked Lute (boat shaped)
Double, two bodied or hollowed out, concave or Boat shape, large soundbox, short neck:
- kobyz
- rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab)
- sarod
- sarangi
- nepalian sarangi (is this really a separate instrument?)
- sarinda
- esraj
- dilruba
- ghaychak
- kyl kyyak
- lyra viol
- viol da gambas
- viol da braccios
- etc
lyre like
it's currently unclear how these belong
- crwth
- rotta
Notes
Rababah - ancient - arabic fiddle -
rebab - medieval - persia
seni rebab - medieval -
kabuli rebab - medieval - arab
rebec - medieval - europe
rebab - modern - indonesia
some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap)
Evolution Aspect
UNDER CONSTRCTION
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
sarangi wd en mb hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi, |
|
sarinda wd en jira, is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?) widespread:
rajasthan (surinda) three main strings
manipur north-east india (sananta)
|
|
nepali sarangi wd en MB!(?) type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the |
|
ghaychak wd en mb jira | cell 2 |
in its family evolved from the kobyz wd en jira. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi) |
|
dhodro banam aka Santal lute east & north india (dhodro banam) |
cell 2 |
Kyl kyyak wd ky en mb! | Cell 2 |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
Dramyin, Tungana, Sgrna-snyan mb
|
|
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
dotara | |
svaraj fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) | Cell 2 |
esraj a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba[2] |
|
Mandar Bahar nmm wd? mb! bass esraj |
Cell 2 |
dilruba Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus[3] |
|
taus | |
mayuri-vina |
|
yazh | |
saung gauk | |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
ektara (actually gopichant) | |
ektar (actually tumbi) | |
dutar | |
setar | |
bin-sitar | Cell 2 |
kamaica | Cell 2 |
ravanhattha | |
khuur (mongolian fiddles) | |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
Geographic Aspect
I'm going to need some kind of map-tool/widget.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar.
- ↑ don't confuse with lyre!
- ↑ https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj
- ↑ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj#History