Advanced Relationship Type Proposal

From MusicBrainz Wiki
Revision as of 16:00, 25 July 2005 by Keschte (talk) ((Imported from MoinMoin))

Proposals of Additions or Changes to Advanced Relationship Types

The purpose of this page is to list all proposals for new AdvancedRelationshipTypes and proposals of changes. If you have such a proposal, please formulate it here and make it known on the MailingList

Note: This has become a TooLongList. These proposals should get a wiki page of their own, at least the most important ones. Basically DontUseAnchors. --DonRedman

Contents

  1. Inconsistent Link directions
  2. Add link to Internet Movie Database(IMDB) URL
  3. Add link to Amazon URL
  4. "Mixed by" album-artist relationship
  5. compiled by album-artist relationship
  6. tribute songs album-artist relationship
  7. Allow Instrument Attribute for Members of a Band
  8. Additional instruments and chorus masters
  9. Also Known As
  10. Rename Legal Name to Birth Name
  11. Has the Barcode
  12. 2005-05-07: Narrator relationship
  13. "Remix of" album-album relationship
  14. 2005-05-30: artist--OLGA url relationship
  15. "Additionally audio/sound/live sound/mix/recording engineered by" relationship
  16. Replace mash-up relationship type with remix of multiple sources
  17. Add "is the birth name of" to relate legal names to each other

RelationshipEditors are able to change relationship types or add new ones. but for this to happen you will need consensus on first the UsersMailingList and then the StyleMailingList, and an AdvancedRelationshipType page that descripes the new relationship in all details.


 

Inconsistent Link directions

(by Dupuy) There's some general inconsistency in our link types about the directionality of 1-N relations:

artist-artist:

  • 1-N X "is the legal name of" Y, Z, A, ...
  • 2-N X "is the parent of" Y, Z, A, ...

album-album:

  • 1-N X "is the earliest release of" Y, Z, A, ...
  • but N-1 X (and Y?) "is a remaster of" A ("always point to earliest")

track-track:

  • 1-N X "is the earliest release of" Y, Z, A, ...
  • 1-N X "is the earliest version of" Y, Z, A, ...
  • but N-1 X (and Y?) "is a remaster of" A ("always point to earliest")
  • N-1 X (and Y?) "is a cover of" A ("always point to earliest")

Whatever we decide to do with the is-person relationship, we need to make these consistent...

Add link to IMDb URL

RelationshipType equest by RodBegbie and StefanKestenholy:

In addition to our current "Wikipedia" AR, could we perhaps consider adding a link to a person's InternetMovieDatabase (IMDb) page? Many musicians have them, through working on soundtracks or appearances on TV shows.

See IMDb, or better InternetMovieDatabase for more details (e.g. do they qualify as open data?).



There are quite a few different IMDB links that would make sense. If you use one, people will be surprised when we don't provide more, so you can expect that implementing this feature will lead to lots more feature requests. I think before this link type is created, there should be at least some discussion about the others so we know what our policy is. Here are some link types that could be considered:

  • Artist <-> Person's entry in IMDb
  • Artist <-> Movies they've appeared in (especially bands, which aren't handled well by IMDb)
  • Soundtrack Album <-> Movie it's taken from (works for games too!)
  • Song <-> Movie it appears in
  • Artist <-> Biopic about them

--MatthewExon

Add link to Amazon URL

RelationshipType request by bawjaws:

Amazon has pages for artists, albums, dvds and books (amongst other things) which may need specific links.

Two major benefits:

  • the code could add the MB associate ID and make some money from purhases of these items.
  • you could extract the ASIN from the url to exactly match album art/buy links which are currently mismatched by the automatic script

Dupuy noticed that the current AmazonMatching is fragile and breaks if the artist name on Amazon differs from the artist name on MusicBrainz. -- Hirvox

Anchor(mixedby)"Mixed by" album-artist relationship

This is from eli on the mb-users mailing list:

But realizing this is a lot of work for small benefit (DJ sets are less than a tenth of a percent of albums I would guess). I'd like to see a new relationship type for album-artist something like "Mixed by." It could be used at least temporarily to connect items in the database that are only connected now via "Mixed by ..." in the album title. And we could automatically fill the database with mods to add these relationships for albums with "Mixed by ..."

-- RobertKaye

People are trying to use (or using) many different AdvancedRelationshipTypes (http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=2828457 "remixed by", http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=2723152 "mix engineered by", http://musicbrainz.org/showmod.html?modid=2917907 "performed by") for DJ-mix albums, but all of these are incorrect. IMO we urgently need "DJ-mixed by" AdvancedRelationshipType

Long discussion about remixes/DJ mixes/mash-ups/... - RemixMeansDifferentThings

Complete proposal - MixDJRelationshipType

--LukZ

compiled by album-artist relationship

very similar to mixed where the artist just chooses their favourite tracks, or assembles tracks based on a theme

tribute songs album-artist relationship

could apply to both collections of covers by various artists and the many orchestral and classical cover albums. Full proposal: TributeRelationshipType

Allow Instrument Attribute for Members of a Band

Should MemberOfBandRelationshipType not have an instrument attribute? --DonRedman

This would introduce some additional complexity in interpreting artist roles: see ArtistRoleInheritance --MatthewExon

Another thought: the instrument attribute doesn't have "vocals", so this wouldn't work for recording singers. Maybe the InstrumentRelationshipAttribute hierarchy should include the VocalRelationshipAttribute hierarchy, and "Performed instrument on" be merged with "Performed vocal on"? There are other roles for members of a band as well: The Prodigy has two dancers as "official" members. IMO these could probably be adequately covered by "other" --MatthewExon

Additional instruments and chorus masters

I proposed a number of other changes on the MailingList, in addition to those, there have been suggestions on IRC for additional instruments (nose flute(?!?), possibly others), and another performance type, "chorus master" (like conductor, for a chorus, proposed by mo). @alex

More instruments: Turntables (as discussed). Also, I've been adding ARing an album and found a few types of electric pianos that I'd need, namely 'Clavinet' and 'Wurlitzer'. As of now there is only Piano -> {Grand piano, Upright piano, Rhodes}, which obviously makes it difficult to add other types of electic pianos than Rhodes. Easiest I figure is to just add 'Electric piano', and have 'Rhodes' (and possibly others as well, even though it doesn't seem that important to me) as sub-category to it. Also I've stumbled over something called CS80, Nord Lead, Leadsynth, and Hammond. Haven't yet investigated what those are, but chanses are they're yet other types of electric pianos or keyboard of some sorts. //[bnw]

Even more: 'tapes' 'noise' & 'effects' for industrial music.

Also Known As

The current Alias property should be repurposed now that AR is ready. Artist who have recorded under multiple names should have a relationship instead. The existing Alias property would still be usefully for misspelled names but there are some artists like Aphex Twin and Wynonna Judd who have recorded under different names and the release should be reflected correctly for those artists. The current "is the legal name/is the performing name" is insufficient since in some cases an artist might perform under two names and neither is their legal name (i.e. Wynonna and Wynonna Judd) --WolfSong

Rename Legal Name to Birth Name

I propose renaming this simply because more often than not, finding someone's birth name is more plausible than their legal name since names can be changed and although in the US such information becomes public record, this may not be the case everywhere. This was actually changed from official name to legal name due to discussions over Wendy/Walter Carlos. In this scenario Wendy is probably the legal name and Walter is the birth name. Both names should be listed seperately since this person has released recordings under each name. --WolfSong

Has the Barcode

In order to link our data to external databases, the ability to assign UPC codes to Albums would be a great help. UPC data is also hard to come by in the commercial market for releases outside the US, so user-entered data would be a great resource. See http://upcdatabase.com for an open UPC database we could perhaps link up with. --RodBegbie

Note: UPC is a type of barcode. See BarCodes for more information. --MatthewExon

2005-05-07: Narrator relationship

This could be useful for audiobooks, but also for other albums like this one: http://www.musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=175913

something like this:

  • artistX narrated albumY albumY has narration by artistX

Seconded by ClutchEr2 in the original discussion.

--azertus

"Remix of" album-album relationship

"albumX is remix of albumY". "albumY has remixed version(s) albumX". Could be useful for albums like: http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/f68b07a4-3e1d-475b-a863-470981e1e45f.html and http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/4807a2d1-ba87-4444-bb4c-39d405e1534b.html, http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/6338adbf-e467-45ed-8f76-9feef7487ce2.html and http://www.musicbrainz.org/album/eee0a40b-5f55-45ec-a0af-ae6438c024d2.html, ... --LukZ



I've only just noticed that there's no relationship to indicate that one track is a remix of another, which is weird. For example, Ghost (edit) is a remix of Ghost. --MatthewExon

2005-05-30: artist--OLGA url relationship

Linking to an artist's page on OLGA could also be useful; see discussion at OLGARelationshipType. --azertus

"Additionally audio/sound/live sound/mix/recording engineered by" relationship

I think that attribute {additional:additionally} could be usefull also for these subtypes of "engineered by" relationship. --LukZ

Just a handy link: this proposal relates to EngineerRelationshipType.

Replace MashUpRelationshipType with RemixerRelationshipType

Although there's clearly such a thing as a "mash-up" that is different from a remix, the definition of such a thing basically boils down either to "a remix with multiple sources" or "a remix made from multiple sources, without having access to the individual instrument tracks" (we're still not sure which). Instead of this, we could simply expand the RemixerRelationshipType, allowing it to be used with multiple source tracks, and adding an attribute recording whether or not the artist had access to the original tracks. This attribute would also be used with SamplesRelationshipType. This records information that is much more objective, while also retaining more information. The idea is, instead of implying these factors in the name "mash-up", we explicitly state what information we're trying to capture.

Original Discussion

--MatthewExon

If there's something that clearly exists, why don't we recognise that and prevent MusicBrainz users having to take an induction course to get started? The difference between a mash-up and a remix (talking generally, since nothing in MusicBrainz is absolute) is that the primary artist of a remix remains the same, though you might be interested in the remixer too. Neither Nirvana fans, nor Destiny's Child fans want "Smells Like Teen Booty" being listed as tracks by those artists, though they may be interested to see a list of all the mash-ups that feature their favourite artist's songs.

Also, this is relevant to AR, though I'm not sure this is the best place to link it from, or the actual title: FundamentalMismatchOfMusicBrainzEntitiesAndReality bawjaws

Add "is the birth name of" to relate legal names to each other

Full proposal at ArtistNameProposal, also discussion at MusicalAssociationRelationshipClass. --MatthewExon


---