History:CSG Standard/JS Bach: Difference between revisions
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Oh yes, on the formatting change... Though I see why it was done, and it works for the larger works, I think it breaks on the (much more numerous) smaller works. While the other format (columns, like the Mozart listing) may be a bit more redundant on a huge work like Matthäus-Passion, it has 2 benefits that this format loses. In columns form, it's consistent for every work, whether there's 1 or 99 movements. That means that if someone were to write a javascript to do work lookups, it's easy to simply scrape the proper row(s) from the appropriate column. Also, if someone wants to export this list to a spreadsheet, it's already column-formatted. In this current form, it is more readable, but for more machine-based (instead of human-based) use, the "meaning" of each row has been lost. I'd really suggest the format be switched back to the columns-based form. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 13:12, 02 January 2008 (UTC) |
Oh yes, on the formatting change... Though I see why it was done, and it works for the larger works, I think it breaks on the (much more numerous) smaller works. While the other format (columns, like the Mozart listing) may be a bit more redundant on a huge work like Matthäus-Passion, it has 2 benefits that this format loses. In columns form, it's consistent for every work, whether there's 1 or 99 movements. That means that if someone were to write a javascript to do work lookups, it's easy to simply scrape the proper row(s) from the appropriate column. Also, if someone wants to export this list to a spreadsheet, it's already column-formatted. In this current form, it is more readable, but for more machine-based (instead of human-based) use, the "meaning" of each row has been lost. I'd really suggest the format be switched back to the columns-based form. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 13:12, 02 January 2008 (UTC) |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Me & pradig have discussed some of the issues you pointed out. We agreed to use [[Opera Style|OperaStyle]] for roles (eg. Judas, Pontifex) so I guess having vocalists after the quote would be more consistent, as you say. I put them before the quote because that's how I've always done it :) perhaps we can set a standard here... I think we agree on using Italian for vocalists (looking at pradig's last updates) as the titles are usually in Italian. But if we put vocalists after the quote, perhaps we should use German instead? There's also an inconsistency in roles (Pontifex=DE) vs. vocalists (Tenore=IT) that will be more apparent if we us [[Opera Style|OperaStyle]] consistently. Regarding title language, the releases I own have German titles in most cases, perhaps that's different outside Europe. I'd like to stick with German (& Italian), rather than adding a 3rd language. We removed the columns for (human) readability. I just wondered if we should put them back to be able to add another catalogue (BC: [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach-Compendium http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach-Compendium]). Do you mean the whole page must be one long table? Would headings inside the table be OK (like in the examples at the top of the page)? -- [[User:symphonick|symphonick]] 13:58 |
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Me & pradig have discussed some of the issues you pointed out. We agreed to use [[Opera Style|OperaStyle]] for roles (eg. Judas, Pontifex) so I guess having vocalists after the quote would be more consistent, as you say. I put them before the quote because that's how I've always done it :) perhaps we can set a standard here... I think we agree on using Italian for vocalists (looking at pradig's last updates) as the titles are usually in Italian. But if we put vocalists after the quote, perhaps we should use German instead? There's also an inconsistency in roles (Pontifex=DE) vs. vocalists (Tenore=IT) that will be more apparent if we us [[Opera Style|OperaStyle]] consistently. Regarding title language, the releases I own have German titles in most cases, perhaps that's different outside Europe. I'd like to stick with German (& Italian), rather than adding a 3rd language. We removed the columns for (human) readability. I just wondered if we should put them back to be able to add another catalogue (BC: [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach-Compendium http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach-Compendium]). Do you mean the whole page must be one long table? Would headings inside the table be OK (like in the examples at the top of the page)? -- [[User:symphonick|symphonick]] 13:58, 02 January 2008 (UTC) |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Sure, you can do headings within the table - see how I do Notes in the Mozart list. I'd suggest, though, that it be kept to a single table, with the headings just rows within that table (Makes it much easier for [[Grease Monkey|GreaseMonkey]]/UserJS/etc to parse elements to the one table rather than trying to script to first find the correct table before doing even trying to find the right row in that table.) If I were to do the Mozart list again, and one thing you might want to consider too, it's much easier to script to the right movement if you also have a movement column, instead of somehow trying to ID the movement from the text, so: |
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| 99 || 1 || Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": I. Coro "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" |
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| 99 || 2 || Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": II. Recitativo (Basso) "Sein Wort der Wahrheit stehet fest" |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">On the Bach-Compendium catalog, I have to admit I've not heard of it or seen it before. There's no equiv page in the english wiki, but I'm guessing it's something akin to the NME Mozart catalog. My only fear in having additional catalogs used would be if you tried to support multiple catalogs in the tracktext. K1/K6 made sense to list in columns, as each appears frequently without the other on liners, but I avoided listing NME/K2/K3 as columns, as they almost never are on any liner. I've only ever seen BWV numbers for JS Bach, but if you've found that BC numbers appear frequently enough to be worth it, then sure, I'd not see any reason not to list a column for those, to make referencing from BC liners to the correct BWV tracktitles easy. On the other hand, though, I think the point is that we do want the tracktitles to become standardized, so I couldn't see any good reason to have, say, a Matthäus-Passion listing for each BWV and BC, depending on which was used on a liner. (The exception, I think - and something I've thought about doing for the K6 deest Mozart works - would be if the BC has cat #s for any BWV deest works that are worth listing... In such a case, I'd tend to think any solid catalog # is better than yet another a deest, so long as it is indicated as BC (or whatever BC uses) and not BWV in the tracktitle. A similar case to this is Chopin, where editors have been using the B catalog for all the posthum. works that were un-ID in the standard Op. catalog.) -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 18:13, 02 January 2008 (UTC) |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Oops, checking & CSG ''does'' define vocalists before the quote... (last example on page) -- [[User:symphonick|symphonick]] 14:04, 02 January 2008 (UTC) |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Yep, just saw it too - leaving a new subsection note in CSGD, as I don't think it makes as much sense as the [[Opera Style|OperaStyle]] form. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 18:13, 02 January 2008 (UTC) |
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[[Category:To Be Reviewed]] |
[[Category:To Be Reviewed]] |
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Revision as of 18:13, 2 January 2008
This is going to be a workinprogress for quite some time :-) Concentrating on the vocal works first, then we'll see... Your contributions are welcome. BTW using texts from Walter Bishop's site.
Works
The structure here follows mostly this article.
Geistliche Kantaten - BWV 1-200
| BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" |
| Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": I. Coro "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" |
| Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": II. Recitativo (Basso) "Sein Wort der Wahrheit stehet fest" |
| Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": III. Aria (Tenore) "Erschüttre dich nur nicht, verzagte Seele" |
| Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": IV. Recitativo (Alto) "Nun, der von Ewigkeit geschloss'ne Bund" |
| Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": V. Aria (Duetto Soprano, Alto) "Wenn des Kreuzes Bitterkeiten" |
| Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": VI. Coro "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" |
| BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit" oder "Actus tragicus" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": I. Sonatina |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IIa. Coro "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IIb. Arioso (Tenore) "Ach, Herr, lehre uns bedenken" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IIc. Aria (Basso) "Bestelle dein Haus" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IId. Coro "Es ist der alte Bund" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IIIa. Aria (Alto) "In deine Hände befehl ich meinen Geist" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IIIb. Arioso (Basso) e Choral (Alto) "Heute wirst du mit mir im Paradies sein" |
| Kantate, BWV 106 "Gottes Zeit ist die allerbeste Zeit (Actus tragicus)": IV. Coro "Glorie, Lob, Ehr und Herrlichkeit" |
There's no real CSG way for more than one common name. I've seen "foo" / "bar" used. This version is from a cover. Watch the mvts 2-3, they may or may not be split into separate tracks.
| BWV 131 "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir" |
| Kantate, BWV 131 "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir": I. Coro "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir" |
| Kantate, BWV 131 "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir": II. Arioso (Basso) e choral (Soprano) "So du wilt, Herr, Sünde zurechnen" |
| Kantate, BWV 131 "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir": III. Coro "Ich harre des Herrn" |
| Kantate, BWV 131 "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir": IV. Aria (Tenore) e choral (Alto) "Meine Seele wartet auf den Herrn" |
| Kantate, BWV 131 "Aus der Tiefen rufe ich, Herr, zu dir": V. Coro "Israel, hoffe auf den Herrn" |
Considering "Aria e choral (Tenore, Alto)"
Weltliche Kantaten - BWV 201-216
Zu Unrecht Bach zugeschriebene Kantaten - BWV 217-224
Motetten BWV 225-231
Messen BWV 232-236
Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233
| Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233: I. Kyrie: Coro "Kyrie" |
| Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233: IIa. Gloria: Coro "Gloria in excelsis Deo" |
| Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233: IIb. Gloria: Aria (Basso) "Domine Deus" |
| Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233: IIc. Gloria: Aria (Soprano) "Qui tollis peccata mundi" |
| Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233: IId. Gloria: Aria (Alto) "Quoniam tu solus Sanctus" |
| Missa in F-Dur, BWV 233: IIe. Gloria: Coro "Cum Sancto Spiritu" |
Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234
| Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234: I. Kyrie: Coro "Kyrie" |
| Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234: IIa. Gloria: Coro "Gloria in excelsis Deo" |
| Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234: IIb. Gloria: Aria (Basso) "Domine Deus, Rex coelestis" |
| Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234: IIc. Gloria: Aria (Soprano) "Qui tollis peccata mundi" |
| Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234: IId. Gloria: Aria (Alto) "Quoniam tu solus sanctus" |
| Missa in A-Dur, BWV 234: IIe. Gloria: Coro "Cum Sancto Spiritu" |
Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235
| Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235: I. Kyrie: Coro "Kyrie" |
| Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235: IIa. Gloria: Coro "Gloria in excelsis Deo" |
| Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235: IIb. Gloria: Aria (Basso) "Gratias agimus tibi" |
| Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235: IIc. Gloria: Aria (Alto) "Domine Fili unigenite" |
| Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235: IId. Gloria: Aria (Tenore) "Qui tollis peccata mundi" |
| Missa in G-Moll, BWV 235: IIe. Gloria: Coro "Cum Sancto Spiritu" |
Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236
| Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236: I. Kyrie: Coro "Kyrie" |
| Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236: IIa. Gloria: Coro "Gloria in excelsis Deo" |
| Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236: IIb. Gloria: Aria (Basso) "Gratias agimus tibi" |
| Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236: IIc. Gloria: Aria (Alto) "Domine Deus" |
| Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236: IId. Gloria: Aria (Tenore) "Quoniam tu solus Sanctus" |
| Missa in G-Dur, BWV 236: IIe. Gloria: Coro "Cum Sancto Spiritus" |
Einzelne Messsätze BWV 237-242
Magnificat, Passionen, Oratorien BWV 243-249
Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, I. Chorus "Kommt, ihr Töchter, helft mir klagen", Choral "O Lamm Gottes, unschuldig" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, II. "Da Jesus diese Rede vollendet hatte" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, III. Choral "Herzliebster Jesu, was hast du verbrochen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IVa. "Da versammelten sich die Hohenpriester" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IVb. Chori "Ja nicht auf das Fest" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IVc. "Da nun Jesus war zu Bethanien" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IVd. Chorus "Wozu dienet dieser Unrat" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IVe. "Da das Jesus merkete" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, V. Recitativo (Alt) "Du lieber Heiland du" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, VI. Aria (Alt) "Buss und Reu" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, VII. "Da ging hin der Zwölfen einer" (Evangelista, Judas) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, VIII. Aria (Sopran) "Blute nur, du liebes Herz" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IXa. "Aber am ersten Tage der süssen Brot" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IXb. Chorus "Wo willst du, dass wir dir bereiten" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IXc. "Er sprach: Gehet hin in die Stadt" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IXd. "Und sie wurden sehr betrübt" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, IXe. Chorus "Herr, bin ichs" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, X. Choral "Ich bin's, ich sollte büssen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XI. "Er antwortete und sprach" (Evangelista, Jesus, Judas) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XII. Recitativo (Sopran) "Wiewohl mein Herz in Tränen schwimmt" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XIII. Aria (Sopran) "Ich will dir mein Herze schenken" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XIV. "Und da sie den Lobgesang gesprochen hatten" (Evangelista, Judas) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XV. Choral "Erkenne mich, mein Hüter" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XVI. "Petrus aber antwortete und sprach zu ihm" (Evangelista, Petrus, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XVII. Choral "Ich will hier bei dir stehen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XVIII. "Da kam Jesus mit ihnen zu einen Hofe" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XIX. Recitativo (Tenor) "O Schmerz! Hier zittert das gequälte Herz", Choral "Was ist die Ursach' aller solcher Plagen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XX. Aria (Tenor) "Ich will bei meinen Jesu wachen", Chorus "So schlafen unsre Sünden ein" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXI. "Und ging hin ein wenig" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXII. Recitativo (Bass) "Der Heiland fällt vor seinem Vater nieder" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXIII. Aria (Bass) "Gerne will ich mich bequemen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXIV. "Und er kam zu seinen Jüngern" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXV. Choral "Was mein Gott will, das g'scheh allzeit" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXVI. "Und er kam und fand sie aber schlafend" (Evangelista, Jesus, Judas) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XVIIa. Aria (Duett: Sopran, Alt) "So ist mein Jesus nun gefangen", Chorus "Lasst ihn, haltet, bindet nicht" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XVIIb. Chori "Sind Blitze, sind Donner in Wolken verschwunden?" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXVIII. "Und siehe, einer aus denen, die mit Jesu waren" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil I, XXIX. Choral "O Mensch, bewein dein Sünde gross" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXX. Aria (Alt) "Ach! nun ist mein Jesus hin", Chorus "Wo ist denn dein Freund hingegangen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXI. "Die aber Jesum gegriffen hatten" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXII. Choral "Mir hat die Welt trüglich gericht'" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXIII. "Und wiewohl viel falsche Zeugen herzutraten" (Evangelista, Testis I/II, Pontifex) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXIV. Recitativo (Tenor) "Mein Jesus schweigt zu falschen Lügen stille" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXV. Aria (Tenor) "Geduld! Wenn mich falsche Zungen stechen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVIa. "Und der Hohepriester antwortete" (Evangelista, Pontifex, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVIb. Chori "Er ist des Todes schuldig" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVIc. "Da speieten sie aus" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVId. Chori "Weissage uns, Christe" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVII. Choral "Wer hat dich so geschlagen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVIIIa. "Petrus aber sass draussen im Palast" (Evangelista, Ancilla I/II, Petrus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVIIIb. Chorus "Wahrlich, du bist auch einer von denen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXVIIIc. "Da hub er an, sich zu verfluchen" (Evangelista, Petrus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XXXIX. Aria (Alt) "Erbarme dich, mein Gott" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XL. Choral "Bin ich gleich von dir gewichen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLIa. "Des Morgens aber hielten alle Hohepriester" (Evangelista, Judas) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLIb. Chori "Was gehet uns das an?" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLIc. "Und er warf die Silberlinge in den Tempel" (Evangelista, Pontifex I/II) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLII. Aria (Bass) "Gebt mir meinen Jesum wieder" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLIII. "Sie hielten aber einen Rat" (Evangelista, Pilatus, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLIV. Choral "Befiehl du deine Wege" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLVa. "Auf das Fest aber hatte der Landpfleger Gewohnheit" (Evangelista, Pilatus, Uxor Pilati, Chori) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLVb. Chori "Lass ihn kreuzigen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLVI. Choral "Wie wunderbarlich ist doch diese Strafe" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLVII. "Der Landpfleger sagte" (Evangelista, Pilatus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLVIII. Recitativo (Sopran) "Er hat uns allen wohlgetan" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, XLIX. Aria (Sopran) "Aus Liebe will mein Heiland sterben" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, La. "Sie schrieen aber noch mehr" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, Lb. Chori "Lass ihn kreuzigen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, Lc. "Da aber Pilatus sahe" (Evangelista, Pilatus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, Ld. Chori "Sein Blut komme über uns" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, Le. "Da gab er ihnen Barrabam los" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LI. Recitativo (Alt) "Erbarm es Gott" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LII. Aria (Alt) "Können Tränen meiner Wangen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LIIIa. "Da nahmen die Kriegsknechte" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LIIIb. Chori "Gegrüsset seist du, Jüdenkönig" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LIIIc. "Und speieten ihn an" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LIV. Choral "O Haupt voll Blut und Wunden" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LV. "Und da sie ihn verspottet hatten" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVI. Recitativo (Bass) "Ja freilich will in uns das Fleisch und Blut" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVII. Aria (Bass) "Komm, süsses Kreuz, so will ich sagen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVIIIa. "Und da sie an die Stätte kamen" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVIIIb. Chori "Der du den Tempel Gottes zerbrichst" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVIIIc. "Desgleichen auch die Hohenpriester" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVIIId. Chori "Andern hat er geholfen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LVIIIe. "Desgleichen schmäheten ihn auch die Mörder" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LIX. Recitativo (Alt) "Ach Golgotha" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LX. Aria (Alt) "Sehet, Jesus hat die Hand", Chorus "Wohin?" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIa. "Und von der sechsten Stunde an" (Evangelista, Jesus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIb. Chorus "Der rufet dem Elias" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIc. "Und bald lief einer unter ihnen" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXId. Chorus "Halt! lass sehen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIe. "Aber Jesus schriee abermal" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXII. Choral "Wenn ich einmal soll scheiden" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIIIa. "Und siehe da, der Vorhang im Tempel zerriss" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIIIb. Chori "Wahrlich, dieser ist Gottes Sohn gewesen" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIIIc. "Und es waren viel Weiber da" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXIV. Recitativo (Bass) "Am Abend, da es kühle war" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXV. Aria (Bass) "Mache dich, mein Herze, rein" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXVIa. "Und Joseph nahm den Leib" (Evangelista) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXVIb. Chori "Herr, wirhaben gedacht" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXVIc. "Pilatus sprach zu ihnen" (Evangelista, Pilatus) |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXVII. Recitativo (Sopran, Alt, Tenor, Bass) "Nun ist der Herr zur Ruh gebracht", Chorus "Mein Jesu, gute Nacht" |
| Matthäus-Passion, BWV 244: Teil II, LXVIII. Chorus "Wir setzen uns mit Tränen nieder" |
Vierstimmige Choralsätze - BWV 250-438
Lieder und Arien - BWV 439-524
Nicht choralgebundene Werke BWV 525-598
Choralsätze BWV 599-771
Zwei- und dreistimmige Werke BWV 772-805
Suiten BWV 806-845
Präludien und Fugen BWV 846-962
Sonaten, Konzerte, Variationen BWV 963-994
Werke für Laute - BWV 995-1000, 1006a
Werke für ein Soloinstrument - BWV 1001-1013
Sonaten mit Cembalo oder Continuo - BWV 1014-1040
Konzerte BWV 1041-1065
Suiten BWV 1066-1071
Kontrapunktische Werke - BWV 1072-1080
Discussions go here
Personally, I'd prefer to see English style CSG rather than German style CSG used (seems more common that classical is released in English rather than German style/keys), but that's just my own preference. However, I think some consistency in language and CSG language style is a must. IIRC, per CSG, German keys are just "A-Dur", not "in A-Dur" (or "ein A-Dur"). Also, there's already here a mix of languages for voice part titles - I see at least three already mixed - Alto/Alt, Coro/Chorus/Chori, etc. - some consistency there would be nice. Finally, for the voice parts, afaik, it's not specified as to order within CSG, but I would suggest the OperaStyle version is more readable and consistent, so "II. Recitativo "Sein Wort der Wahrheit stehet fest (Basso)" instead of "II. Recitativo (Basso) "Sein Wort der Wahrheit stehet fest". I'm glad to see this major project get started up though. :) -- BrianSchweitzer 13:06, 02 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh yes, on the formatting change... Though I see why it was done, and it works for the larger works, I think it breaks on the (much more numerous) smaller works. While the other format (columns, like the Mozart listing) may be a bit more redundant on a huge work like Matthäus-Passion, it has 2 benefits that this format loses. In columns form, it's consistent for every work, whether there's 1 or 99 movements. That means that if someone were to write a javascript to do work lookups, it's easy to simply scrape the proper row(s) from the appropriate column. Also, if someone wants to export this list to a spreadsheet, it's already column-formatted. In this current form, it is more readable, but for more machine-based (instead of human-based) use, the "meaning" of each row has been lost. I'd really suggest the format be switched back to the columns-based form. -- BrianSchweitzer 13:12, 02 January 2008 (UTC)
- Me & pradig have discussed some of the issues you pointed out. We agreed to use OperaStyle for roles (eg. Judas, Pontifex) so I guess having vocalists after the quote would be more consistent, as you say. I put them before the quote because that's how I've always done it :) perhaps we can set a standard here... I think we agree on using Italian for vocalists (looking at pradig's last updates) as the titles are usually in Italian. But if we put vocalists after the quote, perhaps we should use German instead? There's also an inconsistency in roles (Pontifex=DE) vs. vocalists (Tenore=IT) that will be more apparent if we us OperaStyle consistently. Regarding title language, the releases I own have German titles in most cases, perhaps that's different outside Europe. I'd like to stick with German (& Italian), rather than adding a 3rd language. We removed the columns for (human) readability. I just wondered if we should put them back to be able to add another catalogue (BC: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach-Compendium). Do you mean the whole page must be one long table? Would headings inside the table be OK (like in the examples at the top of the page)? -- symphonick 13:58, 02 January 2008 (UTC)
- Sure, you can do headings within the table - see how I do Notes in the Mozart list. I'd suggest, though, that it be kept to a single table, with the headings just rows within that table (Makes it much easier for GreaseMonkey/UserJS/etc to parse elements to the one table rather than trying to script to first find the correct table before doing even trying to find the right row in that table.) If I were to do the Mozart list again, and one thing you might want to consider too, it's much easier to script to the right movement if you also have a movement column, instead of somehow trying to ID the movement from the text, so:
| 99 | 1 | Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": I. Coro "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan" |
| 99 | 2 | Kantate, BWV 99 "Was Gott tut, das ist wohlgetan": II. Recitativo (Basso) "Sein Wort der Wahrheit stehet fest" |
- On the Bach-Compendium catalog, I have to admit I've not heard of it or seen it before. There's no equiv page in the english wiki, but I'm guessing it's something akin to the NME Mozart catalog. My only fear in having additional catalogs used would be if you tried to support multiple catalogs in the tracktext. K1/K6 made sense to list in columns, as each appears frequently without the other on liners, but I avoided listing NME/K2/K3 as columns, as they almost never are on any liner. I've only ever seen BWV numbers for JS Bach, but if you've found that BC numbers appear frequently enough to be worth it, then sure, I'd not see any reason not to list a column for those, to make referencing from BC liners to the correct BWV tracktitles easy. On the other hand, though, I think the point is that we do want the tracktitles to become standardized, so I couldn't see any good reason to have, say, a Matthäus-Passion listing for each BWV and BC, depending on which was used on a liner. (The exception, I think - and something I've thought about doing for the K6 deest Mozart works - would be if the BC has cat #s for any BWV deest works that are worth listing... In such a case, I'd tend to think any solid catalog # is better than yet another a deest, so long as it is indicated as BC (or whatever BC uses) and not BWV in the tracktitle. A similar case to this is Chopin, where editors have been using the B catalog for all the posthum. works that were un-ID in the standard Op. catalog.) -- BrianSchweitzer 18:13, 02 January 2008 (UTC)
- Oops, checking & CSG does define vocalists before the quote... (last example on page) -- symphonick 14:04, 02 January 2008 (UTC)
- Yep, just saw it too - leaving a new subsection note in CSGD, as I don't think it makes as much sense as the OperaStyle form. -- BrianSchweitzer 18:13, 02 January 2008 (UTC)
