Difference between revisions of "History:CSGv2: Proposal Overview"

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(Who is considered a “classical” composer?)
m (CallerNo6 moved page Proposal:CSGv2 to History:CSGv2: Proposal Overview: https://chatlogs.metabrainz.org/brainzbot/metabrainz/msg/3675767/)
 
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{{Status|Getting ready for new RFC}}
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* [[Image:Checkmark.png]] This page - ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Releases and Release Groups (main page) - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Artist - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Title - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Language and Script - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Tracks and Recordings: (main page) - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Checkmark.png]] CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Artist - ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Title - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Works: (main page) - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Works: Artist - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Works: Title (main page) - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Checkmark.png]] CSG for Works: Title: Work and Opus - ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Works: Title: Movement - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Works: Title: Ornamentation - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Attention.png]] CSG for Works: Title: Special Cases - not ready for proposal
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* [[Image:Checkmark.png]] CSG Resources - ready for proposal
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{{Template:proposal
 
{{Template:proposal
 
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=[[Proposal:CSGv2|The Classical Style Guidelines]]=
 
=[[Proposal:CSGv2|The Classical Style Guidelines]]=
<div id="what_is_classical">The Classical Style Guidelines collectively are the [[Style Guideline|style guidelines]] for 'classical music' in the broadest sense, from any music tradition, e.g., [[Wikipedia:20th-century classical music|20<sup>th</sup> century classical]], [[Wikipedia:21st-century classical music|21<sup>st</sup> century classical]], [[Wikipedia:Ancient music|ancient music]], [[Wikipedia:Baroque music|baroque]], [[Wikipedia:Classical period (music)|classical]], [[WikiPedia:Contemporary classical music|contemporary classical]], [[Wikipedia:Early music|early music]], [[Wikipedia:Medieval music|medieval]], [[Wikipedia:Opera|opera]], [[Wikipedia:Production music|production music]], [[Wikipedia:Renaissance music|renaissance]], [[Wikipedia:Romantic music|romantic]], etc.</div>
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__NOEDITSECTION__<div id="what_is_classical">The Classical Style Guidelines collectively are the [[Style Guideline|style guidelines]] for 'classical music' in the broadest sense, from any music tradition, e.g., [[Wikipedia:20th-century classical music|20<sup>th</sup> century classical]], [[Wikipedia:21st-century classical music|21<sup>st</sup> century classical]], [[Wikipedia:Ancient music|ancient music]], [[Wikipedia:Baroque music|baroque]], [[Wikipedia:Classical period (music)|classical]], [[WikiPedia:Contemporary classical music|contemporary classical]], [[Wikipedia:Early music|early music]], [[Wikipedia:Medieval music|medieval]], [[Wikipedia:Opera|opera]], [[Wikipedia:Production music|production music]], [[Wikipedia:Renaissance music|renaissance]], [[Wikipedia:Romantic music|romantic]], etc.</div>
  
  
 
{{Proposal:CSGv2Navigation}}
 
{{Proposal:CSGv2Navigation}}
  
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==CSG and the Style Principles==
 +
CSG exists apart from other style guidelines due to the special situations encountered when dealing with CSG-applicable titles and artists.  With regards to the [[Style_Principle|style principles]], CSG co-exists with the other style guidelines, but is separate from them.  CSG ''does not'' override [[Artist Intent]], but in cases where CSG would conflict with a [[Strong Guideline|strong guideline]], [[Consistent Original Data]], or any other [[Style Guidelines|style guideline]], if CSG is applicable, then ''CSG overrides the conflicting guideline''.
  
 
==Release==
 
==Release==
 
===Release Artist===
 
===Release Artist===
; What [[Release Artist|release artist]] to use for a release you are adding: [[Classical Release Artist Style]]
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Release/Artist|CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Release/Release Group Artist]] for guidelines regarding  the correct artist(s) of [[Release|releases]] and [[Release Group|release groups]].
 +
 
 
===Release Title===
 
===Release Title===
; How to format the [[Release Title|release title]] of a release you are adding: [[Classical Release Title Style]]
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Release/Title|CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Release/Release Group Title]] for guidelines regarding how to format the titles of [[Release|releases]] and [[Release Group|release groups]].
 +
 
 
===Release Language===
 
===Release Language===
The Release Language setting for a release should reflect the language used for the track titles.  It does not reflect the language spoken or sung on the release, nor any of the specific languages found on the liner for any given release of the same recording.  
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Release/Language_and_Script|CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Release Language and Script]] for guidelines regarding correct selection of the language and script for [[Release|releases]].
 +
 
 
==Track==
 
==Track==
 
===Track and Recording Artist===
 
===Track and Recording Artist===
; What [[Track Artist|artist]] to use for a track or recording: [[Proposal:CSGv2/Recording/Artist|The Classical Style Guidelines: CSG for Recordings: Track and Recording Artist]]
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Recording/Artist|CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Track and Recording Artist]] for guidelines regarding  the correct artist(s) of [[Track|tracks]] and [[Recording|recordings]].
  
 
===Track and Recording Title===
 
===Track and Recording Title===
; How to format the titles of [[Track Title|tracks]] and [[Recording Title|recordings]]: [[Proposal:CSGv2/Recording/Title|The Classical Style Guidelines: CSG for Recordings: Track and Recording Artist]]
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Recording/Title|CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Track and Recording Title]] for guidelines regarding how to format the titles of [[Track|tracks]] and [[Recording|recordings]].
  
 
==Work==
 
==Work==
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Note: These are ''advanced'' guidelines.  Typically, only editors who specialize in editing classical [[Work|works]] will need to reference these guidelines.
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===Work Artist===
 
===Work Artist===
Please see [[Proposal:CSGv2/Work/Artist|The Classical Style Guidelines: CSG for Recordings: Work Artist]].
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Work/Artist|CSG for Works: Work Artist]] for guidelines regarding  the correct artist(s) for [[Work|works]].
  
 
===Work Title===
 
===Work Title===
[[Proposal:CSGv2/Work/Artist|The Classical Style Guidelines: CSG for Recordings: Work Title]] defines the title framework for forming work titles.
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Please reference [[Proposal:CSGv2/Work/Title|CSG for Works: Work Title]] for guidelines regarding how to format the titles of [[Work|works]].
  
Notes:
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Pre-[[Next_Generation_Schema|NGS]] CSG Standard Project works lists are listed at [[CSG Standard|CSG Standard]].
* Existing (pre-[[Next_Generation_Schema|NGS]]) CSGStandard Project works lists are linked via [[CSG Standard|CSG Standard]].
 
* This is an advanced guideline.  ''Typically, only editors who specialize in editing classical [[Work|works]] will need this guideline.''
 
  
==CSG and the Style Principles==
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==Advanced Relationships==
CSG exists apart from other style guidelines due to the special situations encountered when dealing with CSG-applicable titles and artists.  With regards to the [[Style_Principle|style principles]], CSG co-exists with the other style guidelines, but is separate from themCSG ''does not'' override [[Artist Intent]], but in cases where CSG would conflict with a [[Strong Guideline|strong guideline]], [[Consistent Original Data]], or any other [[Style Guidelines|style guideline]], if CSG is applicable, then ''CSG overrides the conflicting guideline''.
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It is important that performer, arranger, and conductor relationships be added at the [[Recording|recording]] level (as applicable).<ref>For any given classical release, it is quite likely that there are several other releases containing the same works in the same order; if these basic ARs are not set, the release is essentially a 'blank' listingSuch unidentified 'blank' listings have a bad tendency to become full of PUIDs, TRMs, CD TOCs, and other data from a range of unrelated releases.  Setting these basic identifying ARs allows the users of the database to identify that the releaser you are adding is not, in fact, the one that they want, both avoiding inaccurate data being added, and potentially leading to more releases being added, both of which benefit the data-health of the database.</ref>  Please also review [[Advanced_Relationship_Style#Artist_Role_Inheritance_.26_Track_vs_Release_crediting|the Advanced Relationship guidelines]].  Be aware that setting a relationship to say that an [[Artist|artist]] [[Composer Relationship Type|composed]] a [[Release|release]] is '''not''' the same as setting relationships to say that an [[Artist|artist]] [[Composer Relationship Type|composed]] each [[Track|track]] on a [[Release|release]].
  
==What Advanced Relationships (ARs) ought to always be set for a classical release, track, or work==
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==Release Events==
 
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Please attempt to add a release event to any classical release which you add or editMany classical releases feature the same compositions.  Occasionally the same performers will release an entirely new recording of the same compositions which they previously recorded and released. Without a release event, even if advanced relationships are present, it can be difficult or impossible to determine what recording is actually represented by such an "empty" release.
When adding a classical release, please set all [[Category:Relationship_Type|ARs]] possible.  However, ''even if you don't set any other ARs, please set the performer and conductor ARs for each track''If a release you are adding includes arrangements of classical works, please ''also'' set the arranger AR.<ref>For any given classical release, it is quite likely that there are several other releases containing the same works in the same order; if these basic ARs are not set, the release is essentially a 'blank' listing.  Such unidentified 'blank' listings have a bad tendency to become full of PUIDs, TRMs, CD TOCs, and other data from a range of unrelated releases.  Setting these basic identifying ARs allows the users of the database to identify that the releaser you are adding is not, in fact, the one that they want, both avoiding inaccurate data being added, and potentially leading to more releases being added, both of which benefit the data-health of the database.</ref>
 
 
 
''While there will always be those ARs which do belong at the release level'', performer, composer, conductor, chorus master, and other related ARs should always be set at the track level if you have sufficient data to be able to be that specific.  If an artist did something on all tracks of a release, [[Advanced_Relationship_Style#Artist_Role_Inheritance_.26_Track_vs_Release_crediting|add that relationship to ''each'' track, recording, or work ''rather'' than adding a single artist-release relationship]].
 
  
 
==Who is considered a “classical” composer?==
 
==Who is considered a “classical” composer?==
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'Classical music' is a broad term that encompasses a broad period from the beginning of history through to the present day.  Depending upon the particular culture, classical music can be ecclesiastical, instrumental, orchestral — even electronic.  To attempt to define just what classical music is, or to define a 'classical composer', would invariably include artists who ought to be excluded, and exclude artists who ought to be included.   
 
'Classical music' is a broad term that encompasses a broad period from the beginning of history through to the present day.  Depending upon the particular culture, classical music can be ecclesiastical, instrumental, orchestral — even electronic.  To attempt to define just what classical music is, or to define a 'classical composer', would invariably include artists who ought to be excluded, and exclude artists who ought to be included.   
  
For our purposes, one possible way to determine the answer for a given composition or composer is to question which artist is the principal artist for a work.  People listen to [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/b071f9fa-14b0-4217-8e97-eb41da73f598.html The Rolling Stones] without much care for who composed the songs.  With classical music, though [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/7002bf88-1269-4965-a772-4ba1e7a91eaa.html Glenn Gould] or [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/93dbb52a-3d19-4f64-adc6-524f1921765b.html Hilary Hahn] certainly is important to the performance of the work, the composer of the music being performed is of at least co-equal importance, such that the composer, and not the performer, is the principal artist.  Though no list of all classical composers could ever be considered to be complete, we do maintain a [http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/CSGStandard partial list of classical composers].  
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For our purposes, one possible way to determine the answer for a given composition or composer is to question which artist is the principal artist for a work.  Most people listen to [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/b071f9fa-14b0-4217-8e97-eb41da73f598.html The Rolling Stones] without much care for who ''composed'' the songs.  With 'classical' music, however, [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/7002bf88-1269-4965-a772-4ba1e7a91eaa.html Glenn Gould] or [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/93dbb52a-3d19-4f64-adc6-524f1921765b.html Hilary Hahn] certainly is important to the performance of the work, but the composer of the music being performed is of at least co-equal, frequently greater, importance.  For this reason, for 'classical' music, the composer, and not the performer, is the principal artist.  In MusicBrainz terminology, this is frequently referred to as 'composer as artist style'.
  
Given the breadth of composers and compositions contained within the sphere of classical music, no one guideline can be said to apply equally to all works.  It is quite possible that CSG 'composer as artist' style might apply, while CSG release titling or work titling guidelines do not.  This is most frequently true of modern / experimental classical composers such as [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/a3031680-c359-458f-a641-70ccbaec6a74.html Steve Reich] and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/76325a9d-6c25-4649-96b1-84e9b99d6b4b.html John Cage], soundtrack and score composers such as [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/c3161cf7-cab1-4409-9b1f-876561dd7716.html Michael Nyman], [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/a16e47f5-aa54-47fe-87e4-bb8af91a9fdd.html Ennio Morricone], and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/53b106e7-0cc6-42cc-ac95-ed8d30a3a98e.html John Williams], and composers of music for professional use such as [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/0dbcb631-e74a-4736-87cd-a9f2561fd4d3.html Jeffrey Fayman] and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/7d610910-e08c-4e2a-8dc6-39ea16a02646.html Yoav Goren].  However, just because all aspects of CSG may not always apply to works for any given composer, there will always be [http://musicbrainz.org/release/abfd648f-12de-495d-a227-63bd8f50b665.html those] [http://musicbrainz.org/release/f30207f8-8313-471f-88b9-3b8f3b9a5ebb.html exceptions] where even works by these composers are subject to all aspects of CSG.
+
Given the breadth of composers and compositions contained within the sphere of classical music, no one guideline can be said to apply equally to all works.  It is quite possible that CSG 'composer as artist' style might apply, while CSG titling guidelines do not.  This is most frequently true of modern / experimental classical composers such as [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/a3031680-c359-458f-a641-70ccbaec6a74.html Steve Reich] and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/76325a9d-6c25-4649-96b1-84e9b99d6b4b.html John Cage], soundtrack and score composers such as [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/c3161cf7-cab1-4409-9b1f-876561dd7716.html Michael Nyman], [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/a16e47f5-aa54-47fe-87e4-bb8af91a9fdd.html Ennio Morricone], and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/53b106e7-0cc6-42cc-ac95-ed8d30a3a98e.html John Williams], and composers of music for professional use such as [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/0dbcb631-e74a-4736-87cd-a9f2561fd4d3.html Jeffrey Fayman] and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/7d610910-e08c-4e2a-8dc6-39ea16a02646.html Yoav Goren].  However, just because all aspects of CSG may not apply to the compositions of a given composer, there will always be [http://musicbrainz.org/release/abfd648f-12de-495d-a227-63bd8f50b665.html those] [http://musicbrainz.org/release/f30207f8-8313-471f-88b9-3b8f3b9a5ebb.html exceptions] where even works by such a composer are subject to some or all aspects of CSG titling guidelines.
  
 
==History==
 
==History==
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The new Classical Style Guidelines were passed in __________ of 201_, to coincide with the release of [[Next Generation Schema|NGS]] and the introduction of [[Work|works]] and [[Recording|recordings]].
 
The new Classical Style Guidelines were passed in __________ of 201_, to coincide with the release of [[Next Generation Schema|NGS]] and the introduction of [[Work|works]] and [[Recording|recordings]].
 +
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----
 
----
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==Notes and References==
 
==Notes and References==
 
<small><references/></small>
 
<small><references/></small>
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 +
[[Category:CSG_History]]

Latest revision as of 19:10, 28 August 2016

Status: Getting ready for new RFC
  • Checkmark.png This page - ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Releases and Release Groups (main page) - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Artist - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Title - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Language and Script - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Tracks and Recordings: (main page) - not ready for proposal
  • Checkmark.png CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Artist - ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Title - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Works: (main page) - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Works: Artist - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Works: Title (main page) - not ready for proposal
  • Checkmark.png CSG for Works: Title: Work and Opus - ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Works: Title: Movement - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Works: Title: Ornamentation - not ready for proposal
  • Attention.png CSG for Works: Title: Special Cases - not ready for proposal
  • Checkmark.png CSG Resources - ready for proposal


Status: This page describes an active style guideline proposal and is not official.



Proposal number: RFC-82
Champion: BrianFreud
Current status: Awaiting NGS implementation for final revision and passage.

RFC

Trac ticket # 4426

The Classical Style Guidelines

The Classical Style Guidelines collectively are the style guidelines for 'classical music' in the broadest sense, from any music tradition, e.g., 20th century classical, 21st century classical, ancient music, baroque, classical, contemporary classical, early music, medieval, opera, production music, renaissance, romantic, etc.


Official Documentation > Style Guidelines > The Classical Style Guidelines
Artist
Title: Work and Opus | Movement | Ornamentation | Special Cases



CSG and the Style Principles

CSG exists apart from other style guidelines due to the special situations encountered when dealing with CSG-applicable titles and artists. With regards to the style principles, CSG co-exists with the other style guidelines, but is separate from them. CSG does not override Artist Intent, but in cases where CSG would conflict with a strong guideline, Consistent Original Data, or any other style guideline, if CSG is applicable, then CSG overrides the conflicting guideline.

Release

Release Artist

Please reference CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Release/Release Group Artist for guidelines regarding the correct artist(s) of releases and release groups.

Release Title

Please reference CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Release/Release Group Title for guidelines regarding how to format the titles of releases and release groups.

Release Language

Please reference CSG for Releases and Release Groups: Release Language and Script for guidelines regarding correct selection of the language and script for releases.

Track

Track and Recording Artist

Please reference CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Track and Recording Artist for guidelines regarding the correct artist(s) of tracks and recordings.

Track and Recording Title

Please reference CSG for Tracks and Recordings: Track and Recording Title for guidelines regarding how to format the titles of tracks and recordings.

Work

Note: These are advanced guidelines. Typically, only editors who specialize in editing classical works will need to reference these guidelines.

Work Artist

Please reference CSG for Works: Work Artist for guidelines regarding the correct artist(s) for works.

Work Title

Please reference CSG for Works: Work Title for guidelines regarding how to format the titles of works.

Pre-NGS CSG Standard Project works lists are listed at CSG Standard.

Advanced Relationships

It is important that performer, arranger, and conductor relationships be added at the recording level (as applicable).[1] Please also review the Advanced Relationship guidelines. Be aware that setting a relationship to say that an artist composed a release is not the same as setting relationships to say that an artist composed each track on a release.

Release Events

Please attempt to add a release event to any classical release which you add or edit. Many classical releases feature the same compositions. Occasionally the same performers will release an entirely new recording of the same compositions which they previously recorded and released. Without a release event, even if advanced relationships are present, it can be difficult or impossible to determine what recording is actually represented by such an "empty" release.

Who is considered a “classical” composer?

'Classical music' is a broad term that encompasses a broad period from the beginning of history through to the present day. Depending upon the particular culture, classical music can be ecclesiastical, instrumental, orchestral — even electronic. To attempt to define just what classical music is, or to define a 'classical composer', would invariably include artists who ought to be excluded, and exclude artists who ought to be included.

For our purposes, one possible way to determine the answer for a given composition or composer is to question which artist is the principal artist for a work. Most people listen to The Rolling Stones without much care for who composed the songs. With 'classical' music, however, Glenn Gould or Hilary Hahn certainly is important to the performance of the work, but the composer of the music being performed is of at least co-equal, frequently greater, importance. For this reason, for 'classical' music, the composer, and not the performer, is the principal artist. In MusicBrainz terminology, this is frequently referred to as 'composer as artist style'.

Given the breadth of composers and compositions contained within the sphere of classical music, no one guideline can be said to apply equally to all works. It is quite possible that CSG 'composer as artist' style might apply, while CSG titling guidelines do not. This is most frequently true of modern / experimental classical composers such as Steve Reich and John Cage, soundtrack and score composers such as Michael Nyman, Ennio Morricone, and John Williams, and composers of music for professional use such as Jeffrey Fayman and Yoav Goren. However, just because all aspects of CSG may not apply to the compositions of a given composer, there will always be those exceptions where even works by such a composer are subject to some or all aspects of CSG titling guidelines.

History

The Classical Style Guideline (CSG) for artists began in a discussion on the users mailing list in January of 2004. The Classical Style Guidelines for release titles and track titles began as suggestions within that discussion. CSG continued to develop through December of 2006, when the basic guidelines were locked down as official. Throughout 2007, various discussions on more obscure areas of CSG took place in all possible discussion areas of MusicBrainz. However, these guidelines had several principal problems: they were difficult to interpret, vague in many respects, and every new release entered required the editor to reapply CSG to recreate the correct CSG title. Due to these problems, titles created using CSG varied widely, and classical releases required large amounts of time to enter.

Beginning in early 2008, CSG was reexamined for revision by the Style Council. At that point, CSG had become nearly impossible to actually use, due to the number of unofficial CSG-related guidelines - only a few ever actually documented - which were the result of thousands of edits attempting to interpret CSG. The new version of CSG was intended to solve the problems of the earlier CSG: easier to use on a daily basis, clear and specific in its guidance, and consistent in the titles created using the guidelines, regardless of who was the editor.

From these discussions, the new Classical Style Guidelines (CSGv2) were developed. These new guidelines removed much of the difficulty in using the classical style guidelines. Classical Style Guideline for Releases and Release Groups allows for clarity in titling releases and release groups, Classical Style Guideline for Recordings now keeps titles much closer to what appears on the liner for any given release, and Classical Style Guideline for Works, while by far the most complex style guideline ever created, provides a detailed framework by which any classical composition may be consistently titled. The Classical Style Guideline for Works is complex, but it need only be used once for any given work, and thus is a huge improvement over the original CSG.

The new Classical Style Guidelines were passed in __________ of 201_, to coincide with the release of NGS and the introduction of works and recordings.



Notes and References

  1. For any given classical release, it is quite likely that there are several other releases containing the same works in the same order; if these basic ARs are not set, the release is essentially a 'blank' listing. Such unidentified 'blank' listings have a bad tendency to become full of PUIDs, TRMs, CD TOCs, and other data from a range of unrelated releases. Setting these basic identifying ARs allows the users of the database to identify that the releaser you are adding is not, in fact, the one that they want, both avoiding inaccurate data being added, and potentially leading to more releases being added, both of which benefit the data-health of the database.