History:Instrument Tree/Requests: Difference between revisions

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#REDIRECT [[Instrument List]]
Status, (as don would say): [[Advanced Instrument Tree|AdvancedInstrumentTree]] is now implemented! Go a head and to discuss instruments and suggest new ones!

Discuss Instrument additions and instrument addition wishes here. please use [http://musicbrainz.org/bugs trac] to add the request, (assign it to either luks or ZaphodBeeblebrox) when decided upon.

A new instrument can be added only when it is used on at least 5 regular, proper releases. live or album ok <br/> Please supply as much information about the instrument as possible, [[User:mo|mo]] will probably ask for more information about the instrument if none is given. The best way to get your pet instrument added is by doing some research, give a short concise explanation on what it is, and providing ample links.

Please also do a second search in the Instrument list to make sure it is not already there : )

==List==

* list begins here
** [[WikiPedia:Electric_acoustic_guitar|Electric Acoustic Guitar]]: I'm a bit surprised that this isn't here already, it's not exactly a rare instrument. I came across one release it's used in: [[Release:ee4d29d0-f0c3-4a1b-8bac-e40142d76912|Unlimited: Saga (disc 2)]] - but I have no doubt that it's out there on various other releases as well. -- [[User:Kilu|Kilu]] {{DateTime}}
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">From what I can tell, it's just a regular (acoustic) guitar with pick-ups. Do you want "electric-acoustic" bouzoukis, banjos, harps, accordions, violins, guitar basses, double basses, ... etc. as well? -- -- [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] 10:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I suppose you have a point there. I personally don't have an electric acoustic anything, so I don't know if the sound is any different from normal acoustic. I do think that it's sort of odd that it's specifically credited as such in the booklet though. [[User:Kilu|Kilu]]{{DateTime}}
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Perhaps an "electric" option which could then be applied to any instrument in the list? -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 13:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
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** [[WikiPedia:C%C3%BCmb%C3%BC%C5%9F|Cümbüş]]: I am not sure what the English word is, but [[Wikipedia|WikiPedia]] also list it as Cümbüş and I never heard another saying for it. Many Turkish folk songs includes it. --[[User:syserror|syserror]]
** [[WikiPedia:Tuba|Tuba]]: F Bass Tuba and E-Flat Bass Tuba, also used on [[Release:5854cbe6-52df-400d-8f28-29c04b22b556|Secret of the Sahara]]. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 02:13, 05 August 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Tromboon|tromboon (aka: babone)]]: at least two PDQ Bach works (The Seasonings, Serenude (for devious instruments)) -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 11:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
** Double-reed Slide Music Stand: Used by, who else, PDQ Bach. An oboe read crossed with a music stand into a funky slidebar instrument. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 11:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
** Saxobone: A trombine modified to accept a saxophone mouthpiece. Used by jazz player Eddie Harris (inventor?) among others. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 11:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Trautonium|Trautonium]] -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 11:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Barrel_organ|Barrel Organ]] -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 11:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Basset-horn|Basset-horn]] Mozart wrote several works specifically for basset-horn. To properly AR the full 170 CD set, I need this one. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 06:21, 03 November 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Piccolo_trumpet|Piccolo trumpet]] Mozart also wrote several works for trumpet quintet, which includes a piccolo trumpet. Again, to properly AR several CDs in the 170 CD set, I need this one too. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 06:21, 03 November 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Tangent_piano|Tangent Piano]] In the harpsichord/clavichord family, dates from around the same time as the fortepiano. Mozart specifically wrote K. 300g and K. 315g for the Tangent Piano. I need this one for tracks 19 and 21 of disc 9 of volume 6 of the Brilliant Classics complete Mozart set. -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 19:42, 03 November 2007 (UTC)
** [[WikiPedia:Kalimba|Kalimba]]: [http://musicbrainz.org/show/artist/?artistid=2535 Steve Hackett] played Kalimba on [http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=93350 Wind & Wuthering]. - jongetje
** [[WikiPedia:Twelve_string_guitar|12 string guitar]]: Found on almost any [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/8e3fcd7d-bda1-4ca0-b987-b8528d2ee74e.html Genesis] album. Right now I used acoustic guitar for those credits. - jongetje
** [[WikiPedia:Stroh_violin|Stroh violin]]: Listed several times in the booklet of the Tom Waits album [http://musicbrainz.org/release/1b3fe3d5-3d19-4062-a455-9fe74fcb4d02.html Alice]. See [http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=7905421 edit #7905421]. - MClemo
** [[WikiPedia:Melodeon|Melodeon]]: Name used in UK for diatonic button accordion, exponents include John Spiers, John Kirkpatrick, Andy Cutting and Tim Van Eyken. See [http://info.melodeon.net Melodeon.net] or instruments at [http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/melodeonframeuk.htm Hobgoblin]. It is definitely distinct from the Melodica. -- [[monxton]] 00:39, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">IIRC, the "diatonic button accordion" is already in the instrument tree, so... however, as, in Ireland, a "melodeon" can be used to refer to a specific kind of instrument (a one-rowed dba in Ireland), it might have its merits. I just got up though and am kind of preoccupied, so you may find my argumentation lacking. Sorry. -- [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] 05:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC) (ps.: My first bodhrán was bought through Hobgoblin... if you care to ken. :p)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">You're correct, the "diatonic accordion" is there. However the name melodeon is in common use in the UK, and is the only name for this instrument you are likely to see on instrument credits - and it does appear frequently within this genre. People are not likely to know to translate this to "diatonic accordion", unless they are experts or look it up on Wikipedia. More likely they will enter "accordion", which loses something, particularly if the performer has credits for several different free reeds, e.g. ''melodeon, one-row accordion, singing'' from [http://musicbrainz.org/release/f0528ace-13ff-4537-ba03-b6206fc6a986.html Rice], or the credits from [http://musicbrainz.org/release/608b3ca1-7741-4f0a-ab88-945c4769f562.html Tunes] which read ''John Spiers plays melodeons by Saltarelle, Hohner and Oakwood and an Anglo-Concertina made by Connor.'' Surely the important thing is the name of the instrument that the >artist< thinks they are playing. Otherwise it's just cultural imperialism isn't it? Like you may think you're playing an oud, but I'm going to call it as lute. -- [[monxton]] 12:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Basically you're proposing to add two names for the same thing. I see no reason to do that. British English and American English are two different languages. When I'm trying to add credits for a German release I have to look up the American English names of the instruments on Wikipedia just like you. But I am not asking to add the German names for all the instruments as that's not a problem of the instrument list. One day MB will be internationalised and we will be able to add instrument names in all languages. Until then I have to live with American English names. I might as well say it's imperalism because there are no German names, or I might not, because it isn't really imperialism. It's simply an i18n problem. -- [[User:Shepard|Shepard]] 12:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
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==Discussion==

===Musicbox===

* [[WikiPedia:Musical_box|Music(al) box]] - only have one case so far: Steve Thorne's [[Release:5f1d8dfc-265e-4e3f-ba1f-42595548d306|EMO1]] - so perhaps we should wait for more occurrences. This is probably something for the "Other instruments" section. -- [[User:Shepard|Shepard]] 14:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
** I don't know about Music Boxes really, to me it seems like less of an instrument and more like "instrument, composition(melody), medium(fex vinyl) and medium-player all wrapped up in one thing". I am not sure here to be honest. ~[[User:mo|mo]]

===Synths===

Why shouldn't particular types of synth be added? They're frequently listed on CDs and some people care what type of synth was played. Why not make them subtypes of 'Synthesizer'. [[User:PaulSharpe|PaulSharpe]]
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Because it's impossible to keep up with them all, especially considering the protracted process by which new instruments need to go through before they are added. I've said time and time again that this is all NUTS - what we need are a few (50 tops) instrument/role macro-categories, and then a free text field by which users can input qualifiers. Eg: "Synthesizer [[[Mini Moog|MiniMoog]]]". --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]]
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Free text fields are not possible in the current [[Advanced Relationships|AdvancedRelationships]] implementation. (And also I think a mixture of a list and free text is counter productive, but well..) You guys are just too impatient. :) Let mo finish his job of restructuring the tree and after that he will create a wiki page to make the process of adding instruments much faster. Noone will die inbetween. And it will prevent total chaos to do it structured and in this order. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]]
</ul>
</ul>

The number of different synths produced numbers in the several hundreds. Roland alone has made well over 100 different synths and tone generators. Do you want to start listing all of those? That's a slipperly slope to be on. Besides, they are just models and brands. In the end the artist is still playing a synthesizer. If we start listing those then to be consistent we'd have to list the brand and model of all of the other instruments. Does it matter that Jaco Pastorius played a Fender Precision Bass on most of his albums or can we be content to know that he played electric bass guitar? Likewise, does it really matter that Lyle Mays played a Korg Triton and a Steinway Grand on the last Pat Metheny album or is knowing that he played synthesizer and piano enough? [[User:MattPerry|MattPerry]]

===Dancing===

* Dancing - Occasionally, I stumble upon releases and tracks which have someone credited as "dancer" or with "dancing"
** Stepdancing - I also see step dancing every now and then (actually, probably more often than simply dancing). --[[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] 2007-04-17T07:52:33CEST (I will provide links to releases with these credits as soon as I get around making that [[Wiki Page|WikiPage]] I talked about yesterday in IRC.)
** maybe Tapdancing, which is apparently a subtype of [[WikiPedia:Step_dancing|stepdancing]] - on [[Release:507f5433-5bdf-4f9e-a1ce-a6dab959b8a6|Who Used to Dance]] (actually represented as "percussion instruments performed by Savion Glover"), and probably a lot more releases (Musicals' stuff).
** I'm also coming across a lot of credits for human percussion, for example, from [http://musicbrainz.org/release/f0528ace-13ff-4537-ba03-b6206fc6a986.html Rice], how should I enter Lucy Adams ''feet, clogs, singing''? -- [[monxton]] 12:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I'm not really sure there is a point in crediting things that don't have a relation with the recorded sound (eg: "My mother made the cookies"), and possibly we may define this "instrument" only when it actually has a "part"? -- [[User:dmppanda|dmppanda]] 09:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Well, all the dancing credits I thought of in my above proposal actually have a "part" in the sound picture. Step dance in particular is used in "Celtic" music for percussion, in line with bodhrán, bones, and spoons. -- [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] 13:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
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Mo, no interest in H'arpeggione, Hardanger Fiddle, Spinet, Rebec, Lira da braccio, Viol, treble viol, viola da gamba, bass viol, violone, vihuela, viola da mano, Mexican vihuela, xiao, yali tambur, saz, tar, setar, kamenchech, fasil kemenche, santur, sarangi, santoor, rubab, komuz, dotar, pipa, er-hu, matouqin, gu zeng, gu qin, zhong ruan, charango, ronroco, waylaycho, tiple, requinto, sonqo, patasi charango, South American mandolin, quatro, tambura, instrumental tambura, vocal tambura, valiha, kalimba, or Vocal Role: "Percussion"? (All lost in the revert)... Foolip's working on Chinese releases (have we ever before had someone working on them to need Chinese instruments?) and I'm working on a 170 CD set of classical on period instruments. Even if there's not yet 5 releases listed in here to justify adding each of these yet, shouldn't they still be listed? (For vocal percussion, if anyone can edit that table, I can provide links to at least 30 releases in the db for which it would be needed) -- [[Brian Schweitzer|BrianSchweitzer]] 15:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I'm not very familiar with the instruments of Chinese classical music, but there are annotations on [http://musicbrainz.org/release/3ff90901-6d2f-44ef-805e-2169827dec88.html 殤] and [http://musicbrainz.org/release/72c36f58-8fb4-41f7-b482-ac89b662bee8.html 三笑] where a few instruments are listed. -- [[User:foolip|foolip]] 03:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
</ul>

==Failed, and why==

* Indian Strings ''NOTE: will not be added as it is to generic'' - what should we use when it's listed on a CD as an instrument then? -- Then try to find out exactly what kind of Indian stringed instrument it is. See: [http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/instruments.html http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/instruments.html]
* [[WikiPedia:Tabla|Tabla]] ''already here, see Goblet Drum''
* [[WikiPedia:Guitar_synthesizer|Guitar synthesizer]] This shouldn't be added either. Just because you added a MIDI pickup to your guitar it doesn't change the fact that you're still playing a guitar.
* [[WikiPedia:E-mu|E-mu synthesizer]] This is just a brand of synth. It should not be added.
* [[WikiPedia:DX7|Yamaha DX7]] This is just a brand and model of synth. It should not be added.
* [[WikiPedia:Cymbalum|Cymbalum]] ''already in here, see [http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/AdvancedInstrumentTree?highlight=%28Cymbalum%29 list] : ) ''

==Recently Added==

* [[WikiPedia:Bouzouki|Bouzoukis]]
** Greek Bouzouki
** [[WikiPedia:Irish_bouzouki|Irish Bouzouki]]

* [[WikiPedia:Shawm|Shawm]]
* [[WikiPedia:Autoharp|Autoharp]]
* [[WikiPedia:Davul|Davul]]
* [[WikiPedia:Bass_flute|Bass Flute]] and several other flutes.
* [[WikiPedia:Boatswain%27s_pipe|Boatswain's Pipe / Bosun's Whistle]]
* [[WikiPedia:Flute|Indian Bamboo Flute]]
** also would like to thank [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] for his awesome help in explaining how this should be done. this is a prime example of how id like these requests, not only what and why, but how, thank you [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]]!
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Haha! You're welcome. :) It was interesting to partake in how to best approach that problem. -- [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] 05:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
</ul>

* [[WikiPedia:Violone|Violone]]
* [[WikiPedia:Kantele|Kantele]]
** adding my note here, i think that a generic "Kantele" entry is best. *I* don't know enough about it t even being creating a tree.
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">And we have [[Sub Optimal Credits|SubOptimalCredits]] to see whether there's a need for more specific kantele entries (and which) as well. (If people will use it as intended, that is.) -- [[User:FrederikSOlesen|FrederikSOlesen]] 05:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
</ul>

==Related Links==

* [[Advanced Instrument Tree|AdvancedInstrumentTree]]
* [[Sub Optimal Credits|SubOptimalCredits]]

[[Category:Advanced Relationships]] [[Category:Discussion]]

Latest revision as of 18:13, 5 February 2020

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