https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&feed=atom&action=historyHistory talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees Proposal - Revision history2024-03-29T14:26:47ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.39.4https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=70982&oldid=prevCallerNo6: CallerNo6 moved page Proposal talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees to History talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees Proposal: https://chatlogs.metabrainz.org/brainzbot/metabrainz/msg/3675767/2016-08-28T22:27:34Z<p>CallerNo6 moved page <a href="/Proposal_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees" class="mw-redirect" title="Proposal talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees">Proposal talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees</a> to <a href="/History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal" title="History talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees Proposal">History talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees Proposal</a>: https://chatlogs.metabrainz.org/brainzbot/metabrainz/msg/3675767/</p>
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</table>CallerNo6https://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=64822&oldid=prevReosarevok at 13:50, 23 October 20132013-10-23T13:50:18Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 13:50, 23 October 2013</td>
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<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I propose defining an inheritance of relationships between any two Works joined by a [[Parts Relationship Type]]. This makes explicit the logical consequence of the [[Parts Relationship Type]]'s meaning: that one Work entity is a part of another Work entity. Any Relationship which is in any of the Work-related [[:Category:Relationship Family|Relationship Family]] has its meaning inherited (except [[Parts Relationship Type]], that would be too recursive). </div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I propose defining an inheritance of relationships between any two Works joined by a [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]]. This makes explicit the logical consequence of the [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]]'s meaning: that one Work entity is a part of another Work entity. Any Relationship which is in any of the Work-related [[:Category:Relationship Family|Relationship Family]] has its meaning inherited (except [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]], that would be too recursive). </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This proposal is implemented by three changes:</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This proposal is implemented by three changes:</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding a new page [[Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees]], with the text on the main page</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding a new page [[Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees]], with the text on the main page</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding text (below) to [[Parts Relationship Type]], summarising and referring to [[Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees]]. This will be a follow-on RFC.</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding text (below) to [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]], summarising and referring to [[Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees]]. This will be a follow-on RFC.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding text to [[Work]], linking to [[Work/Relationship Inheritance in Work Trees]]</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding text to [[Work]], linking to [[Work/Relationship Inheritance in Work Trees]]</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The composer, and sometimes librettist and arranger, are hugely important pieces of metadata for classical, opera, and musical theatre music. It's why we refer to Beethoven's 9th Symphony, or Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. These compositions are frequently recorded many times by many different performers, so more than other genres of music it will be common to have many Recordings point to a single Musicbrainz Work entity. And these compositions are large and long enough that a) the the composer breaks them into smaller pieces (movements, acts, scenes, arias, numbers), and b) Releases frequently break the recorded performance into multiple Tracks of a Release. Hence, there's great value for MusicBrainz in having a way to store metadata about musical compositions in a tree structure, with a single Work entity to represent the entire composition, and child Work entities to represent the composer or the Release publishers divisions of that composition. </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The composer, and sometimes librettist and arranger, are hugely important pieces of metadata for classical, opera, and musical theatre music. It's why we refer to Beethoven's 9th Symphony, or Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. These compositions are frequently recorded many times by many different performers, so more than other genres of music it will be common to have many Recordings point to a single Musicbrainz Work entity. And these compositions are large and long enough that a) the the composer breaks them into smaller pieces (movements, acts, scenes, arias, numbers), and b) Releases frequently break the recorded performance into multiple Tracks of a Release. Hence, there's great value for MusicBrainz in having a way to store metadata about musical compositions in a tree structure, with a single Work entity to represent the entire composition, and child Work entities to represent the composer or the Release publishers divisions of that composition. </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The [[Parts Relationship Type]] provides a way to represent a musical composition in MusicBrainz as a tree structure. Right now it is the only relationship between a whole composition and a partial composition. In the future, other relationship types may be added, but for now, it's the only one. The [[Parts Relationship Type]] description is silent about what meaning a relationship with the Work at one end of the Parts relationship has for the Work at the other end.</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]] provides a way to represent a musical composition in MusicBrainz as a tree structure. Right now it is the only relationship between a whole composition and a partial composition. In the future, other relationship types may be added, but for now, it's the only one. The [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]] description is silent about what meaning a relationship with the Work at one end of the Parts relationship has for the Work at the other end.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>At the same time, it's important to be clear to which Work entities Advanced Relationships like Composer and Librettist should be attached. In the past, there has been similar confusion about when Release-Artist relationship types should be used, when Track-Artist, for roles like Performer and Producer. This led to an extensive debate in 2007-2008; the tip of this iceberg can be seen at [[Talk:Artist Role Inheritance]]. Work entities are something of a blank slate. We should state principles now, before there are too many confounding entires in the database.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>At the same time, it's important to be clear to which Work entities Advanced Relationships like Composer and Librettist should be attached. In the past, there has been similar confusion about when Release-Artist relationship types should be used, when Track-Artist, for roles like Performer and Producer. This led to an extensive debate in 2007-2008; the tip of this iceberg can be seen at [[Talk:Artist Role Inheritance]]. Work entities are something of a blank slate. We should state principles now, before there are too many confounding entires in the database.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I wonder why [[Artist Role Inheritance]] is a blank page. There used to be a style guideline under this title. Note: this proposal is not connected to [[Artist Role Inheritance]]. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC) </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I wonder why [[Artist Role Inheritance]] is a blank page. There used to be a style guideline under this title. Note: this proposal is not connected to [[Artist Role Inheritance]]. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC) </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** A: The page [[Style/Relationships#Crediting an artist's role at the track vs. the release level]] addresses what [[Artist Role Inheritance]] used to. Per Nikki [http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/RFC-339-Partial-Works-Relationship-Inheritance-tp6939661p6941285.html Oct 28, 2011; 11:31am].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** A: The page [[Style/Relationships#Crediting an artist's role at the track vs. the release level]] addresses what [[Artist Role Inheritance]] used to. Per Nikki [http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/RFC-339-Partial-Works-Relationship-Inheritance-tp6939661p6941285.html Oct 28, 2011; 11:31am].</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** No objections raised in the RFC discussion. Nor have I found any myself with a few days of thought. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** No objections raised in the RFC discussion. Nor have I found any myself with a few days of thought. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Is [[Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Is [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Any need to add text to [[Style/Work]], presently empty? I think No. With this proposal being moved out of Style/, it can be linked to from Work/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Any need to add text to [[Style/Work]], presently empty? I think No. With this proposal being moved out of Style/, it can be linked to from Work/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed modification to Parts Relationship Type==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following paragraphs added at the end of the section, "Guidelines". This will be a follow-on RFC.</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following paragraphs added at the end of the section, "Guidelines". This will be a follow-on RFC.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>It is an error to connect Works in a cycle with [[Parts Relationship Type]]. In other words, if Work entity '''Child''' has the Relationship ''is part of'' a Work entity '''Parent''', then it is an error for '''Parent''' to have the Relationship ''is part of'' the Work entity '''Child'''.</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>It is an error to connect Works in a cycle with [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]]. In other words, if Work entity '''Child''' has the Relationship ''is part of'' a Work entity '''Parent''', then it is an error for '''Parent''' to have the Relationship ''is part of'' the Work entity '''Child'''.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Proposal: It is an error for a Work entity to have more than one Parent.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Proposal: It is an error for a Work entity to have more than one Parent.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Related reading==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Related reading==</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[Parts Relationship Type]]</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rt:ca8d3642-ce5f-49f8-91f2-125d72524e6a|</ins>Parts Relationship Type]]</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[:Category:Relationship Family]], to look at all the relationships involving [[Work]]. </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* [[:Category:Relationship Family]], to look at all the relationships involving [[Work]]. </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Few of the relationship families involving works are filled in: [[:Category:Artist-Work Relationship Family|Artist—Work]], [[:Category:ReleaseGroup-Work Relationship Family|ReleaseGroup—Work]] (none defined), [[:Category:Release-Work Relationship Family|Release—Work]] (none defined), [[:Category:Label-Work Relationship Family|Label—Work]], [[:Category:Recording-Work Relationship Family|Recording—Work]], [[:Category:Work-Work Relationship Family|Work—Work]], [[:Category:Work-URL Relationship Family|Work—URL]]</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Few of the relationship families involving works are filled in: [[:Category:Artist-Work Relationship Family|Artist—Work]], [[:Category:ReleaseGroup-Work Relationship Family|ReleaseGroup—Work]] (none defined), [[:Category:Release-Work Relationship Family|Release—Work]] (none defined), [[:Category:Label-Work Relationship Family|Label—Work]], [[:Category:Recording-Work Relationship Family|Recording—Work]], [[:Category:Work-Work Relationship Family|Work—Work]], [[:Category:Work-URL Relationship Family|Work—URL]]</div></td>
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</table>Reosarevokhttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49395&oldid=prevJimDeLaHunt: /* Issues */ Unnecessarily complex text, and response.2011-11-05T21:55:13Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Issues: </span> Unnecessarily complex text, and response.</span></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:55, 5 November 2011</td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* The word "Work" has a technical MusicBrainz meaning, and a cultural meaning of "composition". Should this style guideline use the term "Work", or "Composition" (i.e. "Partial Compositions Relationship Inheritance")? But "Composition" has a meaning in mathematics which might also be distracting in this context. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* The word "Work" has a technical MusicBrainz meaning, and a cultural meaning of "composition". Should this style guideline use the term "Work", or "Composition" (i.e. "Partial Compositions Relationship Inheritance")? But "Composition" has a meaning in mathematics which might also be distracting in this context. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** One commenter said the text was unnecessarily complex. [http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2011-November/013944.html (mb-style) RFC-339: Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees], SwissChris, Tue Nov 1 23:30:02 UTC 2011. I think the text is complex, but necessarily so, in order to be precise. I've gone through the whole proposal and tried to clarify the wording. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 21:55, 5 November 2011 (UTC) </div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I'm terrified to mention [[Style/Work]] for fear of getting blocked until that style guideline is completed. But I think this proposal is separable from that one. Still, if I add a stub text in [[Style/Work]], should I also add a link to [[Style/Work]] from the '''Entities''' line in [[:Template:StyleBox]]? I don't feel strongly either way. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I'm terrified to mention [[Style/Work]] for fear of getting blocked until that style guideline is completed. But I think this proposal is separable from that one. Still, if I add a stub text in [[Style/Work]], should I also add a link to [[Style/Work]] from the '''Entities''' line in [[:Template:StyleBox]]? I don't feel strongly either way. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** I'm less terrified, now that the target for this proposal is to fit under [[Work]]/ and not [[Style/Work]]/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** I'm less terrified, now that the target for this proposal is to fit under [[Work]]/ and not [[Style/Work]]/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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</table>JimDeLaHunthttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49255&oldid=prevJimDeLaHunt: /* Issues */ Less terrified of Style/Work mention. Other touchups throughout.2011-11-01T18:22:08Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Issues: </span> Less terrified of Style/Work mention. Other touchups throughout.</span></p>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Does this proposal mean that, as soon as it's approved, editors should search for Work entity Relationships which are redundant given inheritance, and remove them? My thought is No. My primary motive is to make it clear what the right way is to enter new data, and give clear instructions to the MB software developers for how to improve the software. I understand that current software doesn't handle Works relationships well, so redundant Relationships on both a Parent and Child Work entity might work around the software's limitations for now. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 06:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Does this proposal mean that, as soon as it's approved, editors should search for Work entity Relationships which are redundant given inheritance, and remove them? My thought is No. My primary motive is to make it clear what the right way is to enter new data, and give clear instructions to the MB software developers for how to improve the software. I understand that current software doesn't handle Works relationships well, so redundant Relationships on both a Parent and Child Work entity might work around the software's limitations for now. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 06:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it be better to decide that, for now, Relationships to a Work with a Parts Relationship Type relationship should be applied to all Works in that tree, i.e. to the parents, all children, and all children of all the parents? This lets our existing software work see the Relationships for now. Then we improve the server software to handle inheritance. Finally we go back and delete all the redundant ARs? That wasn't my intention. I do see the virtue in it, but I also see drawbacks. I think this is a separate Style issue from this proposal, and someone else should champion it. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it be better to decide that, for now, Relationships to a Work with a Parts Relationship Type relationship should be applied to all Works in that tree, i.e. to the parents, all children, and all children of all the parents? This lets our existing software work see the Relationships for now. Then we improve the server software to handle inheritance. Finally we go back and delete all the redundant ARs? That wasn't my intention. I do see the virtue in it, but I also see drawbacks. I think this is a separate Style issue from this proposal, and someone else should champion it. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it strain the computation and database capacity of MusicBrainz to implement the Relationship Inheritance proposed here? No. A code review seems to show that inheritance of relationships is alive and well on the MusicBrainz server! It's just inheritance along Recording-Work relationship types, not along Parts relationship types. See ''[http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2011-October/013911.html (mb-style) MB does inheritance, just not on Parts Relationship Type]'', Jim DeLaHunt, Sun Oct 30 06:44:20 UTC 2011.</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it strain the computation and database capacity of MusicBrainz to implement the Relationship Inheritance proposed here? No. A code review seems to show that inheritance of relationships is alive and well on the MusicBrainz server! It's just inheritance along Recording-Work relationship types, not along Parts relationship types. See ''[http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2011-October/013911.html (mb-style) MB does inheritance, just not on Parts Relationship Type]'', Jim DeLaHunt, Sun Oct 30 06:44:20 UTC 2011.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> — [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</ins></div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* The word "Work" has a technical MusicBrainz meaning, and a cultural meaning of "composition". Should this style guideline use the term "Work", or "Composition" (i.e. "Partial Compositions Relationship Inheritance")? But "Composition" has a meaning in mathematics which might also be distracting in this context. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* The word "Work" has a technical MusicBrainz meaning, and a cultural meaning of "composition". Should this style guideline use the term "Work", or "Composition" (i.e. "Partial Compositions Relationship Inheritance")? But "Composition" has a meaning in mathematics which might also be distracting in this context. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I'm terrified to mention [[Style/Work]] for fear of getting blocked until that style guideline is completed. But I think this proposal is separable from that one. Still, if I add a stub text in [[Style/Work]], should I also add a link to [[Style/Work]] from the '''Entities''' line in [[:Template:StyleBox]]? I don't feel strongly either way. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I'm terrified to mention [[Style/Work]] for fear of getting blocked until that style guideline is completed. But I think this proposal is separable from that one. Still, if I add a stub text in [[Style/Work]], should I also add a link to [[Style/Work]] from the '''Entities''' line in [[:Template:StyleBox]]? I don't feel strongly either way. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** I'm less terrified, now that the target for this proposal is to fit under [[Work]]/ and not [[Style/Work]]/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"><a class="mw-diff-movedpara-left" title="Paragraph was moved. Click to jump to new location." href="#movedpara_5_1_rhs">⚫</a></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><a name="movedpara_4_0_lhs"></a>*<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> I wonder why [[Artist Role Inheritance]] is a blank page. There used to be a style guideline under this title. Note: this proposal is not connected to [[Artist Role Inheritance]]. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</del> A: The page [[Style/Relationships#Crediting an artist's role at the track vs. the release level]] addresses what [[Artist Role Inheritance]] used to. Per Nikki [http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/RFC-339-Partial-Works-Relationship-Inheritance-tp6939661p6941285.html Oct 28, 2011; 11:31am].</div></td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-added"></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* I wonder why [[Artist Role Inheritance]] is a blank page. There used to be a style guideline under this title. Note: this proposal is not connected to [[Artist Role Inheritance]]. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC) </div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"><a class="mw-diff-movedpara-right" title="Paragraph was moved. Click to jump to old location." href="#movedpara_4_0_lhs">⚫</a></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><a name="movedpara_5_1_rhs"></a>*<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*</ins> A: The page [[Style/Relationships#Crediting an artist's role at the track vs. the release level]] addresses what [[Artist Role Inheritance]] used to. Per Nikki [http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/RFC-339-Partial-Works-Relationship-Inheritance-tp6939661p6941285.html Oct 28, 2011; 11:31am].</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** No objections raised in the RFC discussion. Nor have I found any myself with a few days of thought. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 18:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Is [[Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Is [[Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Any need to add text to [[Style/Work]], presently empty? I think No. With this proposal being moved out of Style/, it can be linked to from Work/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Any need to add text to [[Style/Work]], presently empty? I think No. With this proposal being moved out of Style/, it can be linked to from Work/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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</table>JimDeLaHunthttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49241&oldid=prevNikki: Proposal talk:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance moved to Proposal talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees2011-11-01T11:13:28Z<p><a href="/Proposal_talk:Partial_Works_Relationship_Inheritance" class="mw-redirect" title="Proposal talk:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance">Proposal talk:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance</a> moved to <a href="/Proposal_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees" class="mw-redirect" title="Proposal talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees">Proposal talk:Work/Relationship Inheritance in Works Trees</a></p>
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<td colspan="1" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:13, 1 November 2011</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-notice" lang="en"><div class="mw-diff-empty">(No difference)</div>
</td></tr></table>Nikkihttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49237&oldid=prevJimDeLaHunt: Revise throughout based on RFC discussion.2011-11-01T07:09:14Z<p>Revise throughout based on RFC discussion.</p>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This proposal is implemented by three changes:</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This proposal is implemented by three changes:</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding a new page [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Style/</del>Work/<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Partial Works </del>Relationship Inheritance]], with the text <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">below</del></div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding a new page [[Work/Relationship Inheritance<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> in Works Trees</ins>]], with the text <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">on the main page</ins></div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a stub entry</del> (below) to [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Style/Work</del>]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(presently</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">empty)</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">to point</del> to [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Style/</del>Work/<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Partial Works </del>Relationship Inheritance]]</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">text</ins> (below) to [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Parts Relationship Type</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">,</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">summarising</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">referring</ins> to [[Work/Relationship Inheritance<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> in Works Trees</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. This will be a follow-on RFC.</ins></div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding text<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> (below)</del> to [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Parts Relationship Type</del>]], <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">summarising and referring</del> to [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Style/</del>Work/<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Partial</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Works</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Relationship</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Inheritance</del>]]</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div># Adding text to [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Work</ins>]], <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">linking</ins> to [[Work/<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Relationship</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Inheritance</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">in</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Work Trees</ins>]]</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Motivation==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Motivation==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>At the same time, it's important to be clear to which Work entities Advanced Relationships like Composer and Librettist should be attached. In the past, there has been similar confusion about when Release-Artist relationship types should be used, when Track-Artist, for roles like Performer and Producer. This led to an extensive debate in 2007-2008; the tip of this iceberg can be seen at [[Talk:Artist Role Inheritance]]. Work entities are something of a blank slate. We should state principles now, before there are too many confounding entires in the database.</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>At the same time, it's important to be clear to which Work entities Advanced Relationships like Composer and Librettist should be attached. In the past, there has been similar confusion about when Release-Artist relationship types should be used, when Track-Artist, for roles like Performer and Producer. This led to an extensive debate in 2007-2008; the tip of this iceberg can be seen at [[Talk:Artist Role Inheritance]]. Work entities are something of a blank slate. We should state principles now, before there are too many confounding entires in the database.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Behind these reasons lurks a larger one. MusicBrainz ability to handle metadata for classical and opera works is hindered by the complexity of the cultural traditions for naming these compositions, and naming the Tracks and Releases of them. This is what has driven the [[Classical Style Guide]] to become such a snarl. I believe that the Works entity will likely be a part of the solution to this problem. While we don't know what form that solution will take, it's pretty clear to me that having tree-structured Works entities, and knowing who the Composer is, will be an important part. This proposal is hopefully a brick which will become a small part of the bridge to a better classical music and opera experience in MusicBrainz.</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Behind these reasons lurks a larger one. MusicBrainz<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'s</ins> ability to handle metadata for classical and opera works is hindered by the complexity of the cultural traditions for naming these compositions, and naming the Tracks and Releases of them. This is what has driven the [[Classical Style Guide]] to become such a snarl. I believe that the Works entity will likely be a part of the solution to this problem. While we don't know what form that solution will take, it's pretty clear to me that having tree-structured Works entities, and knowing who the Composer is, will be an important part. This proposal is hopefully a brick which will become a small part of the bridge to a better classical music and opera experience in MusicBrainz.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Issues==</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Issues==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Does this proposal amount to a Works Style guideline that Relationships should now be attached as high in a Parts Relationship Type tree as they apply? No. The [[Style Council]] discussion was concerned about the MusicBrainz software not supporting inheritance right now, so that only Relationships attached to leaf Work entities would have a chance to be detected by current software. My conclusion is that it's premature to issue a Style guideline on this matter. We should leave it to editor discretion where best to attach Relationships in a Parts Relationship Type tree. The inheritance rules just make it clear how to read the Relationships on the tree, given the editor's choice of location. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 22:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Does this proposal amount to a Works Style guideline that Relationships should now be attached as high in a Parts Relationship Type tree as they apply? No. The [[Style Council]] discussion was concerned about the MusicBrainz software not supporting inheritance right now, so that only Relationships attached to leaf Work entities would have a chance to be detected by current software. My conclusion is that it's premature to issue a Style guideline on this matter. We should leave it to editor discretion where best to attach Relationships in a Parts Relationship Type tree. The inheritance rules just make it clear how to read the Relationships on the tree, given the editor's choice of location. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 22:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Does this proposal mean that, as soon as it's approved, editors should search for Work entity Relationships which are redundant given inheritance, and remove them? My thought is No. My primary motive is to make it clear what the right way is to enter new data, and give clear instructions to the MB software developers for how to improve the software. I understand that current software doesn't handle Works relationships well, so redundant Relationships on both a Parent and Child Work entity might work around the software's limitations for now. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 06:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Does this proposal mean that, as soon as it's approved, editors should search for Work entity Relationships which are redundant given inheritance, and remove them? My thought is No. My primary motive is to make it clear what the right way is to enter new data, and give clear instructions to the MB software developers for how to improve the software. I understand that current software doesn't handle Works relationships well, so redundant Relationships on both a Parent and Child Work entity might work around the software's limitations for now. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 06:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it be better to decide that, for now, Relationships to a Work with a Parts Relationship Type relationship should be applied to all Works in that tree, i.e. to the parents, all children, and all children of all the parents? This lets our existing software work see the Relationships for now. Then we improve the server software to handle inheritance. Finally we go back and delete all the redundant ARs? That wasn't my intention<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">,</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">but</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I</del> see the virtue in it<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">But</del> I think this is a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">sseparate</del> Style issue <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">to</del> this proposal. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">06</del>:<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">57</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">29</del> <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">October</del> 2011 (UTC)<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> </del></div></td>
<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it be better to decide that, for now, Relationships to a Work with a Parts Relationship Type relationship should be applied to all Works in that tree, i.e. to the parents, all children, and all children of all the parents? This lets our existing software work see the Relationships for now. Then we improve the server software to handle inheritance. Finally we go back and delete all the redundant ARs? That wasn't my intention<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">do</ins> see the virtue in it<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">,</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">but I also see drawbacks.</ins> I think this is a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">separate</ins> Style issue <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">from</ins> this proposal<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, and someone else should champion it</ins>. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">07</ins>:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">09</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">1</ins> <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">November</ins> 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it strain the computation and database capacity of MusicBrainz to implement the Relationship Inheritance proposed here? No. A code review seems to show that inheritance of relationships is alive and well on the MusicBrainz server! It's just inheritance along Recording-Work relationship types, not along Parts relationship types. See ''[http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2011-October/013911.html (mb-style) MB does inheritance, just not on Parts Relationship Type]'', Jim DeLaHunt, Sun Oct 30 06:44:20 UTC 2011.</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Would it strain the computation and database capacity of MusicBrainz to implement the Relationship Inheritance proposed here? No. A code review seems to show that inheritance of relationships is alive and well on the MusicBrainz server! It's just inheritance along Recording-Work relationship types, not along Parts relationship types. See ''[http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2011-October/013911.html (mb-style) MB does inheritance, just not on Parts Relationship Type]'', Jim DeLaHunt, Sun Oct 30 06:44:20 UTC 2011.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Is [[Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Is [[Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* Any need to add text to [[Style/Work]], presently empty? I think No. With this proposal being moved out of Style/, it can be linked to from Work/. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 07:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed text of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Style/</del>Work/<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Partial Works </del>Relationship Inheritance==</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed text of Work/Relationship Inheritance<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> in Works Trees</ins>==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>See main page for this proposal: [[Proposal:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>See main page for this proposal: [[Proposal:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"><a class="mw-diff-movedpara-right" title="Paragraph was moved. Click to jump to old location." href="#movedpara_14_0_lhs">⚫</a></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><a name="movedpara_11_0_rhs"></a>==Proposed stub for Work==</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-added"></td>
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<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td>
<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>TBD. Some simple reference to [[Work/Relationship Inheritance for Work Trees]]. This will be a follow-on RFC.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"><a class="mw-diff-movedpara-left" title="Paragraph was moved. Click to jump to new location." href="#movedpara_11_0_rhs">⚫</a></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><a name="movedpara_14_0_lhs"></a>==Proposed stub for <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Style/</del>Work==</div></td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-added"></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Style/Work]] is presently empty. There are [[User:PBryan/Work Issues|people working on Work style issues]], and I don't want this proposal to get trapped waiting for that effort to complete. But it also seems odd to have no reference to [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] in the [[Style]] page tree. Thus I propose a simple stub, with this text:</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-added"></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Style guidelines for [[Work]]s are not yet complete. See, however, "[[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]]".</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed modification to Parts Relationship Type==</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed modification to Parts Relationship Type==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following paragraphs added at the end of the section, "Guidelines"<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:</del></div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following paragraphs added at the end of the section, "Guidelines"<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. This will be a follow-on RFC.</ins></div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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</table>JimDeLaHunthttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49233&oldid=prevJimDeLaHunt: /* Proposed modification to Parts Relationship Type */ Move no-cycles text to Parts page, it doesn't belong on Inheritance page. Also, limit to just one parent (proposal).2011-11-01T06:17:05Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Proposed modification to Parts Relationship Type: </span> Move no-cycles text to Parts page, it doesn't belong on Inheritance page. Also, limit to just one parent (proposal).</span></p>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">paragraph</del> added at the end of the section, "Guidelines":</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">paragraphs</ins> added at the end of the section, "Guidelines":</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>It is an error to connect Works in a cycle with [[Parts Relationship Type]]. In other words, if Work entity '''Child''' has the Relationship ''is part of'' a Work entity '''Parent''', then it is an error for '''Parent''' to have the Relationship ''is part of'' the Work entity '''Child'''.</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Proposal: It is an error for a Work entity to have more than one Parent.</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Related reading==</div></td>
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</table>JimDeLaHunthttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49231&oldid=prevJimDeLaHunt: /* Proposed text of Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance */ Fix wikilink to main page. Promote stub and Parts Relationship Type text to H2, from H3.2011-11-01T05:46:57Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Proposed text of Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance: </span> Fix wikilink to main page. Promote stub and Parts Relationship Type text to H2, from H3.</span></p>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed text of Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance==</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>See main page for this proposal: [[Proposal<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> talk</del>:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>See main page for this proposal: [[Proposal:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br /></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=</del>==Proposed stub for Style/Work<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=</del>==</div></td>
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<td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Proposed stub for Style/Work==</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Style/Work]] is presently empty. There are [[User:PBryan/Work Issues|people working on Work style issues]], and I don't want this proposal to get trapped waiting for that effort to complete. But it also seems odd to have no reference to [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] in the [[Style]] page tree. Thus I propose a simple stub, with this text:</div></td>
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<td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The page [[Style/Work]] is presently empty. There are [[User:PBryan/Work Issues|people working on Work style issues]], and I don't want this proposal to get trapped waiting for that effort to complete. But it also seems odd to have no reference to [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] in the [[Style]] page tree. Thus I propose a simple stub, with this text:</div></td>
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</table>JimDeLaHunthttps://wiki.musicbrainz.org/index.php?title=History_talk:Work/Relationship_Inheritance_in_Works_Trees_Proposal&diff=49230&oldid=prevJimDeLaHunt: Copy discussion and meta-information from main page.2011-11-01T05:44:01Z<p>Copy discussion and meta-information from main page.</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>I propose defining an inheritance of relationships between any two Works joined by a [[Parts Relationship Type]]. This makes explicit the logical consequence of the [[Parts Relationship Type]]'s meaning: that one Work entity is a part of another Work entity. Any Relationship which is in any of the Work-related [[:Category:Relationship Family|Relationship Family]] has its meaning inherited (except [[Parts Relationship Type]], that would be too recursive). <br />
<br />
This proposal is implemented by three changes:<br />
# Adding a new page [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]], with the text below<br />
# Adding a stub entry (below) to [[Style/Work]] (presently empty) to point to [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]]<br />
# Adding text (below) to [[Parts Relationship Type]], summarising and referring to [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]]<br />
<br />
==Motivation==<br />
<br />
The composer, and sometimes librettist and arranger, are hugely important pieces of metadata for classical, opera, and musical theatre music. It's why we refer to Beethoven's 9th Symphony, or Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. These compositions are frequently recorded many times by many different performers, so more than other genres of music it will be common to have many Recordings point to a single Musicbrainz Work entity. And these compositions are large and long enough that a) the the composer breaks them into smaller pieces (movements, acts, scenes, arias, numbers), and b) Releases frequently break the recorded performance into multiple Tracks of a Release. Hence, there's great value for MusicBrainz in having a way to store metadata about musical compositions in a tree structure, with a single Work entity to represent the entire composition, and child Work entities to represent the composer or the Release publishers divisions of that composition. <br />
<br />
The [[Parts Relationship Type]] provides a way to represent a musical composition in MusicBrainz as a tree structure. Right now it is the only relationship between a whole composition and a partial composition. In the future, other relationship types may be added, but for now, it's the only one. The [[Parts Relationship Type]] description is silent about what meaning a relationship with the Work at one end of the Parts relationship has for the Work at the other end.<br />
<br />
At the same time, it's important to be clear to which Work entities Advanced Relationships like Composer and Librettist should be attached. In the past, there has been similar confusion about when Release-Artist relationship types should be used, when Track-Artist, for roles like Performer and Producer. This led to an extensive debate in 2007-2008; the tip of this iceberg can be seen at [[Talk:Artist Role Inheritance]]. Work entities are something of a blank slate. We should state principles now, before there are too many confounding entires in the database.<br />
<br />
Behind these reasons lurks a larger one. MusicBrainz ability to handle metadata for classical and opera works is hindered by the complexity of the cultural traditions for naming these compositions, and naming the Tracks and Releases of them. This is what has driven the [[Classical Style Guide]] to become such a snarl. I believe that the Works entity will likely be a part of the solution to this problem. While we don't know what form that solution will take, it's pretty clear to me that having tree-structured Works entities, and knowing who the Composer is, will be an important part. This proposal is hopefully a brick which will become a small part of the bridge to a better classical music and opera experience in MusicBrainz.<br />
<br />
==Issues==<br />
* Does this proposal amount to a Works Style guideline that Relationships should now be attached as high in a Parts Relationship Type tree as they apply? No. The [[Style Council]] discussion was concerned about the MusicBrainz software not supporting inheritance right now, so that only Relationships attached to leaf Work entities would have a chance to be detected by current software. My conclusion is that it's premature to issue a Style guideline on this matter. We should leave it to editor discretion where best to attach Relationships in a Parts Relationship Type tree. The inheritance rules just make it clear how to read the Relationships on the tree, given the editor's choice of location. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 22:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
* Does this proposal mean that, as soon as it's approved, editors should search for Work entity Relationships which are redundant given inheritance, and remove them? My thought is No. My primary motive is to make it clear what the right way is to enter new data, and give clear instructions to the MB software developers for how to improve the software. I understand that current software doesn't handle Works relationships well, so redundant Relationships on both a Parent and Child Work entity might work around the software's limitations for now. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 06:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
* Would it be better to decide that, for now, Relationships to a Work with a Parts Relationship Type relationship should be applied to all Works in that tree, i.e. to the parents, all children, and all children of all the parents? This lets our existing software work see the Relationships for now. Then we improve the server software to handle inheritance. Finally we go back and delete all the redundant ARs? That wasn't my intention, but I see the virtue in it. But I think this is a sseparate Style issue to this proposal. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 06:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC) <br />
* Would it strain the computation and database capacity of MusicBrainz to implement the Relationship Inheritance proposed here? No. A code review seems to show that inheritance of relationships is alive and well on the MusicBrainz server! It's just inheritance along Recording-Work relationship types, not along Parts relationship types. See ''[http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2011-October/013911.html (mb-style) MB does inheritance, just not on Parts Relationship Type]'', Jim DeLaHunt, Sun Oct 30 06:44:20 UTC 2011.<br />
* If this proposal is approved, there are a number of obvious enhancements to request for the web server's search function, for Picard, etc. to build in this relationship inheritance. My next step would be to propose these enhancements, as RFC and or tickets. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
* The word "Work" has a technical MusicBrainz meaning, and a cultural meaning of "composition". Should this style guideline use the term "Work", or "Composition" (i.e. "Partial Compositions Relationship Inheritance")? But "Composition" has a meaning in mathematics which might also be distracting in this context. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
* I'm terrified to mention [[Style/Work]] for fear of getting blocked until that style guideline is completed. But I think this proposal is separable from that one. Still, if I add a stub text in [[Style/Work]], should I also add a link to [[Style/Work]] from the '''Entities''' line in [[:Template:StyleBox]]? I don't feel strongly either way. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
* I wonder why [[Artist Role Inheritance]] is a blank page. There used to be a style guideline under this title. Note: this proposal is not connected to [[Artist Role Inheritance]]. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 10:49, 28 October 2011 (UTC) A: The page [[Style/Relationships#Crediting an artist's role at the track vs. the release level]] addresses what [[Artist Role Inheritance]] used to. Per Nikki [http://musicbrainz-mailing-lists.2986109.n2.nabble.com/RFC-339-Partial-Works-Relationship-Inheritance-tp6939661p6941285.html Oct 28, 2011; 11:31am].<br />
* Can we really make a blanket statement that ''all'' Work-X relationships (except for [[Parts Relationship Type]]) get inherited? I think yes. Look though the list of existing relationship types. They all make sense inheriting from parent composition to child composition and vice versa. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
* Is [[Parts Relationship Type]] the only Work-Work relationship that triggers inheritance? Yes, it's the only one expressing a structural relationship between a composition and a fragment of that same composition. I can imagine creating another such relationship, to represent fragments of a composition which the composer didn't define. If we add other structural relationship types, then we should put them into their own relationship class, and modify [[Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] to treat that class specially, instead of treating just [[Parts Relationship Type]] specially. [[User:JimDeLaHunt|JimDeLaHunt]] 12:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Proposed text of Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance==<br />
See main page for this proposal: [[Proposal talk:Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].<br />
<br />
<br />
===Proposed stub for Style/Work===<br />
The page [[Style/Work]] is presently empty. There are [[User:PBryan/Work Issues|people working on Work style issues]], and I don't want this proposal to get trapped waiting for that effort to complete. But it also seems odd to have no reference to [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]] in the [[Style]] page tree. Thus I propose a simple stub, with this text:<br />
<br />
Style guidelines for [[Work]]s are not yet complete. See, however, "[[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]]".<br />
<br />
<br />
===Proposed modification to Parts Relationship Type===<br />
<br />
The page [[Parts Relationship Type]] will have the following paragraph added at the end of the section, "Guidelines":<br />
<br />
Connecting two Work entities with this relationship type means that each Work inherits the meaning of relationships applied to the other Work. For instance, a Composer relationship applied to the main work is inherited by the work part. Applying a relationship to the overall Work has a different meaning than applying the same relationship to the work part. The details of this inheritance are spelled out in [[Style/Work/Partial Works Relationship Inheritance|Partial Works Relationship Inheritance]].<br />
<br />
==Related reading==<br />
* [[Parts Relationship Type]]<br />
* [[:Category:Relationship Family]], to look at all the relationships involving [[Work]]. <br />
** Few of the relationship families involving works are filled in: [[:Category:Artist-Work Relationship Family|Artist—Work]], [[:Category:ReleaseGroup-Work Relationship Family|ReleaseGroup—Work]] (none defined), [[:Category:Release-Work Relationship Family|Release—Work]] (none defined), [[:Category:Label-Work Relationship Family|Label—Work]], [[:Category:Recording-Work Relationship Family|Recording—Work]], [[:Category:Work-Work Relationship Family|Work—Work]], [[:Category:Work-URL Relationship Family|Work—URL]]<br />
** See also the definition trees on the [[MusicBrainz]] server: [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/artist-work Artist—Work], [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/release_group-work ReleaseGroup—Work], [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/release-work Release—Work], [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/label-work Label—Work], [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/recording-work Work—Recording], [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/work-work Work—Work], [http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/admin/linktype/url-work Work—URL]<br />
* [http://musicbrainz.1054305.n4.nabble.com/RFC-Concept-of-works-group-tp3535348p3535348.html The Work Group thread] talked about a mechanism for over-riding global "parent" ARs with local "child" ARs. (May 2011) (Thanks to Alex / caller #6 for the link.)<br />
* [[:Talk:Artist Role Inheritance]] is the tip of the iceberg for a past debate (2007-2008) about when Release-Artist relationship types should be used, when Track-Artist, for roles like Performer and Producer. The philosophical issues are similar.<br />
* [[Proposal:Display Inheritance]], talking about a similar issue of inheriting meaning in a tree structure. This RFC was declared offically abandoned on March 24, 2010. <br />
* [http://lists.musicbrainz.org/pipermail/musicbrainz-style/2005-August/000319.html (mb-style) Advanced Relationship Inheritance (Was: Advanced Relationship Attribute "additional")], a long thread starting in August 2005.<br />
* [[User:PBryan/Work Issues]], lots of work to be done regarding MB Work entities!</div>JimDeLaHunt