Difference between revisions of "Jazz/Band Disambiguation"

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Revision as of 08:01, 15 March 2009

Swing and all that Jazz

Currently the Swing- and Jazz-bands in the DB is a bigger mess than the BigMess, hopefully this page will be a forum for adding, fixing, searching and ultimately, helping out people with this.

please add messed up bands to this page.

initially all entries will be sorted in this (heh) unsorted list, eventually they will be sorted under their band leader and be in separated bulleted lists, with description and differentiation of each.

Mr. List is here to serve:

  • Duke Ellington search
    • Duke Ellington and His Orchestra
    • The Duke Ellington Orchestra
    • The Duke Ellington Trio
  • Louis Armstrong search
    • Louis Armstrong & His Orchestra
    • Louis Armstrong & [his/the] All-Stars
    • Louis Armstrong's Hot Five
    • Louis Armstrong's Hot Sevens
    • Louis Armstrong's Hot Five & Sevens
  • Glenn Miller search
    • The Glenn Miller Orchestra
    • Glenn Miller and his band
    • Glenn Miller & His Army Air Force Band / Captain Glenn Miller and the Army Air Force Band (these sould probably be merged.)
  • Count Basie search
    • Count Basie & His Orchestra
    • Count Basie All Stars
    • Count Basie Big Band
    • The Count Basie Trio
  • Dizzy Gillespie search
    • Dizzy Gillespie & His Orchestra
    • Dizzy Gillespie Septet
    • Dizzy Gillespie Sextet
    • Dizzy Gillespie Big Band
    • Dizzy Gillespie All Stars
    • Dizzy Gillespie & His Quartet
    • Dizzy Gillespie & His All Star Quintet
  • Charlie Parker horrible mess is so scary I don't even dare adding the existing entries down here...
  • Sun Ra search
  • Albert Ammons search
  • Benny Goodman search
    • Benny Goodman
    • Benny Goodman & His Orchestra
    • Benny Goodman Orchestra
    • The Benny Goodman Trio / Quartet / Sextet / Septet
    • Benny Goodman Trio and Quartet
    • Benny Goodman & His Trio
    • Benny Goodman's Boys

This is just a beginning list, as one can clearly see, there is a distinct pattern to the names, and some of these are definitely valid separate artists. Some are however, not.

Sorting out where what belongs and the discussion that is bound to follow I hope will happen on this page before any drastic mass changes are done to the artists, a sort of 'mini style guide' so to speak.

Complicatedness for example this:

Duke Ellington Count Basie & their Orchestras

how on *earth* does one sort out something like that? Or is it, not a problem at all?

  • this artist don't exist anymore. If it would exist, I would first try to kill it :D as probably falling into one of these categories: (a) bogus VA comp information - (b) "promotional" name used by a late compilation - (c) completely improper bootleg generated name. --- If I can't kill it, I would sort it as: Ellington, Duke & Basie, Count. Sortnames I guess are usefull to help search requests, and I guess this proposal do contain the relevant bits. Just strip the useless machins :D -- dmppanda

discussion

please also add outside links! ~mo (no, that isn't a discussion topic >_<)

I think this noble tidying task may have to tackle a major problem: most people think the proper release artist is what is printed on the cover. Which is wrong (for jazz) in a good number of cases for the following reasons:

  • most time, covers print the name of the artist, plus what I call "a numerical indication of the number of people involved in the recording session" (eg: trio), which most time (sometimes) doesn't refer to a group in the traditionnal meaning of it.
  • successive strictly identical releases of an album may simply alter, strip, extend, or completely change the release artist name

For a stupid flame war on my own on this topic, for a ridiculous change, see this It's even more problematic when dealing with VA compilations, as these usually don't mention the name of the release artist of the originating release, but complete session details (and sometime bogus :p). Some of these battles can't be win. "Cannonball Adderley" "Quintet in Chicago" and "John Coltrane & Cannonball Adderley" "Cannonball and Coltrane" are bound to be separated forever, or resurface each time we try a merge. Now, some we can win. IMO we need to have a special Jazz thing (I would love, official) stating that formations names may not always be used extensively as stated on covers, and should preferably be stripped out (unless of course they are a legit group, which can happen...), and that in jazz, covers are definitely not the ultimate and trustable source of information to determine a release artist name. Now the question is what exactly to do: maybe I can write a wikipage, (say, Jazz), with a paragraph explaining this so that we can refer to it in moderations (after of course most moderators agree on it) -- dmppanda

cat, a suggestion - now that we have a preliminary "top" directory for jazz stuff Jazz, what about moving this one under it? Like Jazz/SwingJazzBandDisambiguation or possibly just Jazz/BandDisambiguation? Just a "tidying" thought, though - dmppanda

It's also a fact opinions diverge on how we should handle things. Some respected editors think successive identical reissues with (even slightly) different release name or release artist should be added separately. To me this sounds insane, and this would drive MB more far away from being what I call "serious discographic tools" (although it's a known fact I'm totally biased by session based/composition based solutions) -- dmppanda 19:06, 08 August 2006 (UTC)