Style/Titles/Part numbers: Difference between revisions
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#REDIRECT [[Style/Titles#Series_numbering]] |
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=Style for PartNumbers= |
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'''When a track is one of a series of identically named tracks with a defined order, separate the [[Part Number|PartNumber]] from the [[Track Title|TrackTitle]] by a comma and a space.''' |
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'''"''[[Track Title|TrackTitle]]'', Part 1"''' |
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'''"''[[Track Title|TrackTitle]]'', Part 1: ''Part<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>Name"''' |
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This guideline is a specification of the more general [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]]. See that page for principles (especially in which cases [[Artist Intent|ArtistIntent]] overrides this guideline). |
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Alternative names for parts may be used, such as Section, or their non-English equivalents. |
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* Note that if the title of a track is just "''Part 1''" or similar then this guideline should not apply, because then "''Part 1''" is considered being the [[Main Title|MainTitle]] of the track and not the [[Part Number|PartNumber]]. |
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* Also note that the [[Abbreviation Style|AbbreviationStyle]] says that you should not use abbreviations in titles. So "Pt." should always be expanded to "Part" (assuming the [[Album Language|AlbumLanguage]] is English). |
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* Also note that the [[Part Name|PartName]] must be formatted according to [[Subtitle Style|SubTitleStyle]]. |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">This is an [[Official Style Guideline|OfficialStyleGuideline]]. but it is currently (June 2005) under discussion on the [[Style Mailing List|StyleMailingList]] |
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</ul> |
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==Example== |
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"''Flares, Part 3''" --[http://musicbrainz.org/track/36bd10fa-3214-4876-ab75-55b59f31606d.html http://musicbrainz.org/track/36bd10fa-3214-4876-ab75-55b59f31606d.html] |
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"''09-15-00, Part One''" --[http://musicbrainz.org/track/9a414931-0cb3-48ec-861e-0c4c344199c5.html http://musicbrainz.org/track/9a414931-0cb3-48ec-861e-0c4c344199c5.html] |
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"''Creepin', Parts 1 & 2''" --[http://musicbrainz.org/track/d5590ff3-51d4-44db-89c6-0a2372524199.html http://musicbrainz.org/track/d5590ff3-51d4-44db-89c6-0a2372524199.html] Two numbers are noted using an ampersand "&", the part indication in its plural form. |
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"''Train to Lamy Suite, Parts 1-3''" --[http://musicbrainz.org/track/fdd06153-56d0-420d-9130-8103723b2989.html http://musicbrainz.org/track/fdd06153-56d0-420d-9130-8103723b2989.html] More than 2 numbers, which are in sequence are separated by a hyphen "-", the part indication in its plural form. |
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"''This Is a Trackname, Parts 1, 4 & 5''" -- More than 2 numbers, which are *not* in sequence are separated by a comma "," and the last one is added with an ampersand "&", the part indication in its plural form. |
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==Details== |
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Please see [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]] for details. |
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==Discussion== |
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I have albums where the first part of the track series has no part number, despite a second part existing. In this case I think we should leave that numberless, as it could be considered the 'original' or 'main' version of the song. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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---- |
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'''Q:''' Is it ok to have numbers spelled out? |
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'''A:''' Yes it is ok to have them spelled out - see the examples on [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]]. |
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---- |
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'''Q:''' What if a track "Some Trackname (Pt. 1)" is featured with the said title on a compilation? Should it stick to the formatting as it were in sequence with the other parts of the series, e.g. "Some Trackname, Part 1"? I'm in favor of applying PartNumberStyle to all track names which have some notation of Pt, Pts and other variants. --[[G0llum|g0llum]] |
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'''A:''' I believe that's the thing to do - I think tracks that are intentionally have this abbreviations (for whatever reason) are a rare occurance. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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---- |
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'''Q:''' Should stuff not be added to [[Track Titles|TrackTitles]] in parantheses, like in [[Track Attributes Style|TrackAttributesStyle]] and [[Remix Style|RemixStyle]]? |
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'''A:''' As long as it is consistant, use the format the artist uses. Parts are almost always shown with a preceeding comma on tracklistings, rather than track attributes (eg mix names). Also, we consider [[Part Number|PartNumber]]s to be more a part of the title than [[Extra Title Information|ExtraTitleInformation]], they are special. |
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---- |
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Imho this old style guideline needs to be extended. I have several issues which are to be discussed: On [http://musicbrainz.org/album/3b27a16a-1016-4cf9-9c10-51bd0cbf5e8d.html http://musicbrainz.org/album/3b27a16a-1016-4cf9-9c10-51bd0cbf5e8d.html] you can see I applied the "," style also to the prologue as it is also a "part" of "The Embrace That Smothers". What you can also see here: just like it's written on the cover the items of the title are grouped "Part title (Group title, Part X)". I though applied another style on Symphony X as the titles as they were directly led to this: see album [http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=51058 http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=51058] - I there changed from "A Winter's Dream - The Ascension (Part II)" to "A Winter's Dream, Part II: The Ascension". So here (mostly derived from the cover) the style is "Group title, Part X: Part title" which I prefer more but I think we could just stick to the cover. Nevertheless part titles are not yet included in this guideline and need to be standardized. Maybe we can stick to the classical rules here. :) |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Part titles *are* included in this (new!) guideline - see it's parent, [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]]. -- [[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Ok, this question is cleared, i felt over a guideline that is marked official but was not linked before. Added it above. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Shouldn't be a seperate page - I shall incorporate those guidelines into this page, as per [[Volume Number Style|VolumeNumberStyle]]. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Done. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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</ul> |
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</ul> |
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</ul> |
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</ul> |
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Another flaw is the first sentence in this guideline: "Applies to songs that have been split across multiple tracks." This is not always the case! Look at [http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=185132 http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=185132] - the last song has no more parts, all of them are in one track but yet it includes parts! Or take Dream Theater's album "Metropolis, Part 2: Scenes From a Memory" - there was no album 1 but a track "Metropolis, Part I: The Miracle and the Sleeper" though we intuitive apply PartNumberStyle. Ok this could be explained with [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]] but imho the whole thing needs to be more formalized. -- [[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I agree, it's too restraining to apply it only to series of tracks, because the tracks could either be split on multiple discs, or even releases -- [[G0llum]] [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]] is the general rule - PartNumberStyle simply applys a few specific instructions for parts, which we did because PartNumberStyle and [[Volume Number Style|VolumeNumberStyle]] are largely governed by the same principles (ie [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]]). Regarding these specific examples - I think common sense should prevail in this case, and outlining specific rules for these would muddy the waters for 99% of applications of this guideline. Remember we do have a democratic system in place for 'grey' areas :) -- [[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Well, how big is the difference between [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]], PartNumberStyle and [[Volume Number Style|VolumeNumberStyle]] anyway? Would it not make sense to merge them all into [[Series Number Style|SeriesNumberStyle]]? --[[User:DonRedman|DonRedman]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I think the [[Wiki Names|WikiNames]] make most sense the way they are split currently. If merged, it would lead to a rather big and confusing page. Personally I wouldn't want to attempt to do that but people are welcome to try :) -- [[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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</ul> |
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Yet another question :) What about tracks which combine different parts where every part has a name? See for example Angra's [http://musicbrainz.org/album/fe2c6b19-da36-4fad-8344-0699e9b79a1f.html Rebirth] and its entry in [http://www.discogs.com/release/423974 Discogs] (they do this in comments). Often we seem to leave those parts out as they make the title to long and the part names are often not mentioned on the cover but only in the lyrics. But on this [http://www.cover-paradies.to/?fCall=ShowImage&vId=25306&vType=Back cover] for example there are part names (not with the word "Part"). [http://www.discogs.com/release/389996 Discogs] does this as before, in our [http://musicbrainz.org/album/8e535921-a078-4564-ab70-dd3966f67fdf.html album entry] it is not mentioned at the moment. I really think we need to adopt more style guidelines from the classical guide. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I don't think this guideline should cover this really. This is just for dealing with part numbers of seperate tracks. For that example I would like to see it as something like "Unholy Wars: Imperial Crown / Forgiven Return". I seem to remember that being suggested back in the [[Style Dude|StyleDude]] days but there doesn't seem to be anything concrete in place. Anyway it's for another page :) --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">No, sorry, but I don't see any reason to drop the word "Part" where it is on the cover (for the first album I mentioned: [http://www.cover-paradies.to/?fCall=ShowImage&vId=25312&vType=Back http://www.cover-paradies.to/?fCall=ShowImage&vId=25312&vType=Back]) so this is to be covered by this guideline. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Sorry, misunderstood you when you said "not with the word "Part"" :) In that case, I think we should extend the guideline to cover examples like this with: "[[Track Title|TrackTitle]], Parts 1: [[Part Name|PartName]] & 2: [[Part Name|PartName]]". Agreed? --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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</ul> |
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Sentence "Applies to songs that have been split across multiple tracks." should go, because it contradicts the rest of the document. Opinions? --[[User:Zout|Zout]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">For it. Or at least reformulate it. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Agreed, and done. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">But I still disagree :( Again: the last track on [http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=185132 http://musicbrainz.org/showalbum.html?albumid=185132] only has those 3 parts so there are no other tracks that belong to this series. Also it does not say that this track can contain several parts of the series. I'd say: "If a track covers one (or several) part(s) of a work which is splitted to several parts ..." or something like that. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I think with that, the title *implies* there's more parts to the series, regardless of whether they have ever been recorded or not. If not, then it's just a stylistic title and as such doesn't really come under this rule I think. Regardless, I think this is an exceptional case and I'd rather we didn't comprimise the integrity of the rule that applies to 99% of cases. We can't cover every eventuality really. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">A stylistic title would not come under the rule? So I should write it like it's on the cover? That would be very incosistent. Another example: [http://musicbrainz.org/album/94d1641f-7c5a-4e11-acaa-2654f57986a4.html http://musicbrainz.org/album/94d1641f-7c5a-4e11-acaa-2654f57986a4.html] - see: it's not an exceptional case. And not an eventuality. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]] |
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<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">If you can think of a way to incorporate this into the guideline without confusing things then be my guest. Personally, I can't, and I'd like to go with a simple (hah!) set of rules to cover most things, and let common sense prevail over the rest. --[[User:Gecks|Gecks]] |
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[[Category:To Be Reviewed]] [[Category:Style]] [[Category:Official Style]] |
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Latest revision as of 23:47, 1 May 2015
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