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= Rebab =
Indeed, the kemenche is also another untangled mess in itself, the kamancheh and the kemenche are two different instruments, unrelated (well eventually they are, but not as close as the names would imply) were the kamancheh (acc to wikipedia) is the one related to [[R*bab|rebab]].
There is a lot of confusion about instruments named [[R*bab|r*bab]], historically "rebab" was a generic named for chiefly bowed string instruments, from this evolved also plucked variant (see rubab), originally arabic, it traveled around the world and became the origin of many stringed instrument-families.<br>
<br>There is also the Classical kemenche and the kemenche of the black sea (s)
<br>
* so we have:
There are chiefly 3 large groupings:<br>
* kamancheh [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q290951 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamancheh en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/a9f76c33-1eaa-48c0-a43c-ee12754eb7bf mb] - persian spikefiddle
* kemenche [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q10969818 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemenche en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/01ba56a2-4306-493d-8088-c7e9b671c74e mb] - mediterranean lute
* kemençe of the Black Sea (Karadeniz kemençesi, Pontic kemenche, Pontic lyra) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q12060981 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemen%C3%A7e_of_the_Black_Sea en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/ad09a4ed-d1b6-47c3-ac85-acb531244a4d mb] - box-shaped lute
* classical kemençe (Klasik kemençe, Armudî kemençe, Politiki lyra) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q10259047 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_kemen%C3%A7e en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/b9692581-c117-47f3-9524-3deeb69c6d3f mb] - bowl-shaped lute


* Stick, small soundbox, spike-fiddle bowed family, chiefly south-east asian - from here evolved all kinds of spike fiddles, including such where the spike is vestigial, also south-eastern europe.
* Byzantine lyra [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2606162 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_lyra en] MB! - medieval greek pear-shaped lute which has many descendants:
** to wit the ghijak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q54995817 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghijak en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/0d766870-3021-47ce-bd51-78d2d2484e1b mb] and the Indonesian Rebab, probably the chinese huquin as well.
** Greek (Politiki lyra (aka classical kemence ^))
* Large, short neck, boat-shaped or indented bowed (but including plucked variant) lutes, chiefly middle-eastern south asian - from here many various folk fiddles, plucked lutes, both of which also inspired evolution of european instruments.
** Pontic Greek (Pontic lyra (aka KotBS ^))
** herein the sarinda, sarangi, esraj, ravaj, among these the guitar and vielle families.
** Cretan (Cretan lyra) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q369556 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretan_lyra en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/4fe225a3-6939-4fab-a416-d0cd38c96cb9 mb]
* Medium, varying neck pear-shaped bowed lute, chiefly middle-eastern, european - from here many bowed and plucked families.
** Serbian/Montenegroan (gusle) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q669370 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gusle en] MB!
** alike kamanche, byzantian lyra, presumably sitar, (thus [[User:CatCat/v*na|vina]]) barbat, oud and the actual lute itself. possibly including such as mandolin and balalaika.
** Bulgarian (gadulka) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1078965 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadulka en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/280ae6d4-03ad-4009-ba8d-de793e4c87c0 mb]
** Croatia (Dalmatian Lijerica) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1420096 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijerica en] MB!
** Italian (Calabrian lira) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1130464 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabrian_lira en] MB!
** Russia (gudok) [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q854664 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudok en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/0bcc6b50-1f8b-4c6b-86f3-f2cd61ae5f85 mb]
* (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_lyra)


<br>
<br>


= Classification aspect =
<!-- [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q854664 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudok en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/0bcc6b50-1f8b-4c6b-86f3-f2cd61ae5f85 mb] -->


(make into a table eventually)


== Spike-fiddle==


Long neck, small soundbox, spike, possibly vestigial:
unknown if it is any relation:
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzaanchy Byzaanchy] (string instrument, sounds like Byzans(Byzantian))


* Indonesian rebab
* đàn gáo
* đàn hồ
* đàn nhị
* salo/saw lo
* saw sam sai
* saw u
* saw duang
* tro khmer
* tro sau
* tro che
* tro sau thom
* tro u
* tro (research)
* jawza
* konya
* sanxian
* erxian
* huqin (family)
** sihu
** yehu
** dihu
** zhonghu
** banhu
** huluhu
** jinghu
** erhu
*** gaohu
* kamancheh
* igil/ikili
* sanshin
* shamisen
* kokyu
* yaylı tambur
* ghijak
* ravanahatha
* haegeum
* (afrikan)
** goje
** njarka
** n'ko
** imzad


some kind of timeline possibly:<br>

?? -> rebab -?> lira ?-?> vielle (medieval fiddle) -> lira da braccio (renaissance) -> ?? -> viol/violin
== Bowed Lute (pear shaped) ==

Bowl or pear-shaped, (lyra<ref>don't confuse with lyr<i>e</i>!</ref>) larger lute-like soundbox, often shorter neck:

* Byzantine lyra/lira
* Gadulka
* gudok
* gusle
* sintir
* guimbri
* cretan lyra
* calabrian lira
* dalmatian lijerica
* kemenche
* pontic lyra(k of the black sea)
* politiki lyra (classical k)
* rebec
* rabel
* dutar
* çifteli
* cobza
* kobza/bandurka
* komuz
* qanbūs/gambus
* gabusi
* tambouras -> eg lutes, baglamas etc.
* pandur etc
* tambur etc
* tanpura etc
* indian lute, sitar
* cittern, gitten, etc guitar
*etc

== Bowed/plucked Lute (boat shaped) ==

Double, two bodied or hollowed out, concave or Boat shape, large soundbox, short neck:

* kobyz
* rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab)
* sarod
* sarangi
** nepalian sarangi (is this really a separate instrument?)
* sarinda
* esraj
* dilruba
* ghaychak
* kyl kyyak
* lyra viol
* viol da gambas
* viol da braccios
* etc

== lyre like ==

it's currently unclear how these belong

* crwth
* rotta




== Notes ==

Rababah - ancient - arabic fiddle - <br>
rebab - medieval - persia<br>
seni rebab - medieval - <br>
kabuli rebab - medieval - arab<br>
rebec - medieval - europe<br>
<br>
rebab - modern - indonesia<br>

some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap)


= Evolution Aspect=

UNDER CONSTRCTION

<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>Cell 1</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
</table>

<table border="1">
<tr>
<td>'''sarangi''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q608650 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarangi en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/79f5331d-d17c-4c2e-8ad0-44144432a754 mb]<br>
hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi, <br>
sarangi type:<br>
kashmir (saran)<br>
south afghanistan (sarang)<br>
jammu (saranga)<br></td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200205230058if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/sarangi_india_2.jpg</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>'''sarinda''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q348878 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarinda en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-856 jira], is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?)<br>
widespread:<br>
afghanistan, pakistan and north india (sarinda)<br>
: pakistani baluchistan (saroz)<br>
: iranian baluchistan (sorud (soruz)) derived from qobuz but more like indian types in use and construction, used for ritual<br>
: pakistani sind (surando) sindi and baluchi models have deeper upper bouts than sarinda<br>
rajasthan (surinda) three main strings<br>
Assam (sareja)<br>
: ''bengal (variant long necked svaraj)(belongs to sitar maybe?)''<br>
manipur north-east india (sananta)<br>
: east & north india (banam)<br>
: nepal (sarangi)<br></td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191219134928if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sarinda.gif</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>nepali sarangi [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7423131 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarangi_(Nepali) en] MB!(?)<br>
type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191218153957if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sarangi_nepal.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>ghaychak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1521728 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaychak en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/d50ba107-4930-4e0b-8b3f-ffbea4a1ade1 mb] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-371 jira]</td>
<td>cell 2</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>in its family evolved from the kobyz [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1778051 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobyz en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-439 jira]. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi)<br></td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191217110929if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_k/kobyz.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>dhodro banam aka Santal lute<br>
east & north india (dhodro banam)</td>
<td>cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Kyl kyyak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13170382 wd] [https://ky.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8B%D0%BB_%D0%BA%D1%8B%D1%8F%D0%BA ky] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyl_kyyak&oldid=257894745 en] mb!</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Cell 1</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Cell 1</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td> Dramyin, Tungana, Sgrna-snyan [https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/ab0ed8e9-c02e-4824-bf1a-c8bb06f7cfe9 mb]<br>
<br>
Folk rabab found in the Himalayas. The number of strings varies from 4, 5, 6, or 7. The name also varies, where local versions may be called Damyan, Dramyen, Dranyen, Dramyin (curiously sometimes spelled <u>sgrna-snyan</u>), or Tungana. Manuscripts from the Moghul period indicate that once this form of rabab was very common in northern India.</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200317134335if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sgra_snyan.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<tr>
<td>Cell 1</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>dotara</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20140604010127if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi2/dotara_i.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>'''svaraj''' fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) </td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>esraj<br>
a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba<ref name="Esraj på Svenskwiki">https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj</ref><br>
Ishwari Raj<br>
</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002214if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/esraj_2.jpg</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Mandar Bahar [http://collections.nmmusd.org/India/2405MandarBahar/MandarBahar2405.html nmm] wd? mb!<br>
bass esraj</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>dilruba<br>
Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus<ref name="esraj at en.wiki">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj#History</ref><br>
Guru Gobind Singh
</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220220752if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_d/dilruba.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>taus </td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191228042044if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_t/taus.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>mayuri-vina<br></td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191223221916if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_m/mayuri_veena.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>[[User:CatCat/yazh-yazhoo|yazh]]</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220095908if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_y/yazh.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>saung gauk</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200212130253if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/saunggauk.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Cell 1</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>ektara (actually gopichant)</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220232603if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_g/gopichant.gif<br>
http://web.archive.org/web/20200206004750if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/gopichant3.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>ektar (actually tumbi)</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160416194455if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_t/tumbi.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>dutar</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206003251if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/dutar_2.jpg</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>setar</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160511014833if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/setar_i.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>bin-sitar</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>kamaica</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>ravanhattha</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002924if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/ravanhatta_2.jpg</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>khuur (mongolian fiddles)</td>
<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191218153959if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_m/morin_khuur.gif</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Cell 1</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
</tr>
</table>



= Geographic Aspect =

I'm going to need some kind of map-tool/widget.

<br>
<br>
<br>

<br>
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar.

Latest revision as of 07:39, 25 March 2024

Rebab

There is a lot of confusion about instruments named r*bab, historically "rebab" was a generic named for chiefly bowed string instruments, from this evolved also plucked variant (see rubab), originally arabic, it traveled around the world and became the origin of many stringed instrument-families.

There are chiefly 3 large groupings:

  • Stick, small soundbox, spike-fiddle bowed family, chiefly south-east asian - from here evolved all kinds of spike fiddles, including such where the spike is vestigial, also south-eastern europe.
    • to wit the ghijak wd en mb and the Indonesian Rebab, probably the chinese huquin as well.
  • Large, short neck, boat-shaped or indented bowed (but including plucked variant) lutes, chiefly middle-eastern south asian - from here many various folk fiddles, plucked lutes, both of which also inspired evolution of european instruments.
    • herein the sarinda, sarangi, esraj, ravaj, among these the guitar and vielle families.
  • Medium, varying neck pear-shaped bowed lute, chiefly middle-eastern, european - from here many bowed and plucked families.
    • alike kamanche, byzantian lyra, presumably sitar, (thus vina) barbat, oud and the actual lute itself. possibly including such as mandolin and balalaika.



Classification aspect

(make into a table eventually)

Spike-fiddle

Long neck, small soundbox, spike, possibly vestigial:

  • Indonesian rebab
  • đàn gáo
  • đàn hồ
  • đàn nhị
  • salo/saw lo
  • saw sam sai
  • saw u
  • saw duang
  • tro khmer
  • tro sau
  • tro che
  • tro sau thom
  • tro u
  • tro (research)
  • jawza
  • konya
  • sanxian
  • erxian
  • huqin (family)
    • sihu
    • yehu
    • dihu
    • zhonghu
    • banhu
    • huluhu
    • jinghu
    • erhu
      • gaohu
  • kamancheh
  • igil/ikili
  • sanshin
  • shamisen
  • kokyu
  • yaylı tambur
  • ghijak
  • ravanahatha
  • haegeum
  • (afrikan)
    • goje
    • njarka
    • n'ko
    • imzad


Bowed Lute (pear shaped)

Bowl or pear-shaped, (lyra[1]) larger lute-like soundbox, often shorter neck:

  • Byzantine lyra/lira
  • Gadulka
  • gudok
  • gusle
  • sintir
  • guimbri
  • cretan lyra
  • calabrian lira
  • dalmatian lijerica
  • kemenche
  • pontic lyra(k of the black sea)
  • politiki lyra (classical k)
  • rebec
  • rabel
  • dutar
  • çifteli
  • cobza
  • kobza/bandurka
  • komuz
  • qanbūs/gambus
  • gabusi
  • tambouras -> eg lutes, baglamas etc.
  • pandur etc
  • tambur etc
  • tanpura etc
  • indian lute, sitar
  • cittern, gitten, etc guitar
  • etc

Bowed/plucked Lute (boat shaped)

Double, two bodied or hollowed out, concave or Boat shape, large soundbox, short neck:

  • kobyz
  • rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab)
  • sarod
  • sarangi
    • nepalian sarangi (is this really a separate instrument?)
  • sarinda
  • esraj
  • dilruba
  • ghaychak
  • kyl kyyak
  • lyra viol
  • viol da gambas
  • viol da braccios
  • etc


lyre like

it's currently unclear how these belong

  • crwth
  • rotta



Notes

Rababah - ancient - arabic fiddle -
rebab - medieval - persia
seni rebab - medieval -
kabuli rebab - medieval - arab
rebec - medieval - europe

rebab - modern - indonesia

some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap)


Evolution Aspect

UNDER CONSTRCTION

Cell 1 Cell 2
sarangi wd en mb

hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi,
sarangi type:
kashmir (saran)
south afghanistan (sarang)

jammu (saranga)
sarangi_india_2.jpg
sarinda wd en jira, is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?)

widespread:
afghanistan, pakistan and north india (sarinda)

pakistani baluchistan (saroz)
iranian baluchistan (sorud (soruz)) derived from qobuz but more like indian types in use and construction, used for ritual
pakistani sind (surando) sindi and baluchi models have deeper upper bouts than sarinda

rajasthan (surinda) three main strings
Assam (sareja)

bengal (variant long necked svaraj)(belongs to sitar maybe?)

manipur north-east india (sananta)

east & north india (banam)
nepal (sarangi)
sarinda.gif
nepali sarangi wd en MB!(?)
type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the
sarangi_nepal.gif
ghaychak wd en mb jira cell 2
in its family evolved from the kobyz wd en jira. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi)
kobyz.gif
dhodro banam aka Santal lute
east & north india (dhodro banam)
cell 2
Kyl kyyak wd ky en mb! Cell 2
Cell 1 Cell 2
Cell 1 Cell 2
Dramyin, Tungana, Sgrna-snyan mb


Folk rabab found in the Himalayas. The number of strings varies from 4, 5, 6, or 7. The name also varies, where local versions may be called Damyan, Dramyen, Dranyen, Dramyin (curiously sometimes spelled sgrna-snyan), or Tungana. Manuscripts from the Moghul period indicate that once this form of rabab was very common in northern India.
sgra_snyan.gif
Cell 1 Cell 2
dotara dotara_i.gif
svaraj fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) Cell 2
esraj

a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba[2]
Ishwari Raj

esraj_2.jpg
Mandar Bahar nmm wd? mb!
bass esraj
Cell 2
dilruba

Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus[3]
Guru Gobind Singh

dilruba.gif
taus taus.gif
mayuri-vina
mayuri_veena.gif
yazh yazh.gif
saung gauk saunggauk.gif
Cell 1 Cell 2
ektara (actually gopichant) gopichant.gif
gopichant3.gif
ektar (actually tumbi) tumbi.gif
dutar dutar_2.jpg
setar setar_i.gif
bin-sitar Cell 2
kamaica Cell 2
ravanhattha ravanhatta_2.jpg
khuur (mongolian fiddles) morin_khuur.gif
Cell 1 Cell 2


Geographic Aspect

I'm going to need some kind of map-tool/widget.





https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar.