Difference between revisions of "User:CatCat/Spike-fiddles and other Riddles"

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(Table Aspect)
(Table Aspect)
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<td>Kyl kyyak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13170382 wd] [https://ky.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8B%D0%BB_%D0%BA%D1%8B%D1%8F%D0%BA ky] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyl_kyyak&oldid=257894745 en] mb!</td>
<td>Kyl kyyak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13170382 wd] [https://ky.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8B%D0%BB_%D0%BA%D1%8B%D1%8F%D0%BA ky] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyl_kyyak&oldid=257894745 en] mb!</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
<td>Chikara [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5097384 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chikara_(instrument) en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-955 jira]</td>
<td>'''Sursingar''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2372387 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursingar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/efca0287-2791-4209-b29b-1019891cb8d2 mb] hybrid plucked north indian classical lute invented c1800 by jaffar khan (seniya family)<br>
resonator, front and bridge from sitar, upperpart of neck/pegboard like the '''rabab''', tuned and played like '''rabab''', plectrum like sitar.<br>
(clearly this is a sitar/rabab hybrid)<br></td>
<td>'''sitar''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q229205 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff mb] <br>
hindustani sitar seems to have more in common with large uzbek dutar [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1143814 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/b3cf8cff-f7c7-4311-bf4e-cfc09bdb07ca mb] than persian setar [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1544746 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/f1299271-c5d7-4f7c-8b72-d64aa152c3bb mb]<br>
sitar and souther tambura [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3541715 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanb%C5%ABra_(lyre) en] MB! (how relates to drone tanbura? [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1164636 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanpura en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/a19ae157-702a-40c6-892f-9bcb97328b7b mb]) to be evolved from the dutar?<br>
also Sarasvati vina from this?<br>
sitar has frets, tambura not<br>
terms "fretted and unfretted tambura" used to distinguish between sitar and fretless drone taMbura<br>
::    sursotta (transportable drone tambura)<br>
other sitar types: (distribution and related features suggest a common development)<br>
carnatic sitar<br>
kashmiri setar<br>
afghan tanbur<br>
gujarati sittarae(poss)<br>
most common: <u>Hindustani concert sitar</u> aka tarafdar sitar (singel gourd and duble gourd)<br>
: has sympathetic strings, this is mostly commonly just called sitar and is the standard made <br>
<u>sada sitar</u> (plain or practice sitar)<br>
<u>kachva sitar</u> muhammad khan developed the surbahar from this, name probably a ref to the part of the gourd its used from.<br>
small sitar (kinnari veena)<br>
carnatic sitar<br></td>
<td>kachva sitar aka kacchapi vina</td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
<td>surbahar [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q980383 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surbahar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/1ed558ad-1628-4e5f-8d14-e18e54375cd5 mb]<br>
effectively a bass sitar. invented c1820 by ghulam muhammad<br></td>
<td>Cell 2</td>
<td>tanpura aka tambura aka tanpur (etc)</td>
<td>hansa veena<br>
<td>pulluvan veena [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q55525195 wd] [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulluvan_vina ge] mb!</td>
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<td> Dramyen (Damyan, Dranyen, Dramyin, Tungana)<br>
<td> Dramyin, Tungana, Sgrna-snyan [https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/ab0ed8e9-c02e-4824-bf1a-c8bb06f7cfe9 mb]<br>
The dramyen is a folk rabab found in most of the Himalayan region.  The number of strings varies from place to place, but 4, 5, 6, or 7 seems to be common.  The names also vary from region to region, where local versions may be called Damyan, Dramyen, Dranyen, Dramyin (curiously enough sometimes spelled as <u>sgrna-snyan</u>), or Tungana. Sizes too may vary, the Nepali Tungana tends to be smaller than the Tibetian Dramyen.  Manuscripts from the Moghul period indicate that at one time, this form of rabab was very common in northern India, however today it is confined to the Himalayan regions.</td>
Folk rabab found in the Himalayas.  The number of strings varies from 4, 5, 6, or 7.  The name also varies, where local versions may be called Damyan, Dramyen, Dranyen, Dramyin (curiously sometimes spelled <u>sgrna-snyan</u>), or Tungana. Manuscripts from the Moghul period indicate that once this form of rabab was very common in northern India.</td>

Revision as of 20:08, 18 March 2020

How many r*b*b's do we have?:

long-necked rabab (spikefiddle rebab)
lute like ____ where the rebec evolved from (herein the lutes)
double chested rabab (pearshaped lute rubab)


  • Spikefiddle, to wit the ghijak wd en mb and the Indonesian Rebab belong...
  • Long necked barbed lute (pearshaped lutes!) kamanche, ravaj, read vina
  • Short necked fiddle boat-shaped /double chested lutes, herein the sarinda and sarangi families.

Classification aspect

spikefiddle - long neck, tiny soundbox

  • Indonesian rebab
  • đàn gáo
  • đàn hồ
  • đàn nhị
  • salo/saw lo
  • saw sam sai
  • saw u
  • saw duang
  • tro khmer
  • tro sau
  • tro che
  • tro sau thom
  • tro u
  • tro (research)
  • jawza
  • konya
  • sanxian
  • erxian
  • huqin (family)
    • sihu
    • yehu
    • dihu
    • zhonghu
    • banhu
    • huluhu
    • jinghu
    • erhu
      • gaohu
  • kamancheh
  • igil/ikili
  • sanshin
  • shamisen
  • kokyu
  • yaylı tambur
  • ghijak
  • ravanahatha
  • haegeum
  • (afrikan)
    • goje
    • njarka
    • n'ko
    • imzad

bowl (lyra, divergent) larger lute-like soundbox shorter neck

  • Byzantine lyra/lira
  • Gadulka
  • gudok
  • gusle
  • sintir
  • guimbri
  • cretan lyra
  • calabrian lira
  • dalmatian lijerica
  • kemenche
  • pontic lyra(k of the black sea)
  • politiki lyra (classical k)
  • rebec
  • rabel
  • dutar
  • çifteli
  • cobza
  • kobza/bandurka
  • komuz
  • qanbūs/gambus
  • gabusi
  • tambouras -> eg lutes, baglamas etc.
  • pandur etc
  • tambur etc
  • tanpura etc
  • indian lute, sitar
  • cittern, gitten, etc guitar
  • etc

double (lute, divergent) two bodied or hollowed out, concave shape, thick short neck

  • kobyz
  • rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab)
  • sarod
  • sarangi
    • nepalian sarangi (is this really a separate instrument?)
  • sarinda
  • esraj
  • dilruba
  • ghaychak
  • kyl kyyak
  • lyra viol
  • viol da gambas
  • viol da braccios
  • etc


  • taus/mayuri veena/b
  • yazh
  • saung/saung-gauk

lyre like

  • crwth
  • rotta


Rababah - ancient - arabic fiddle -
rebab - medieval - persia
seni rebab - medieval -
kabuli rebab - medieval - arab
rebec - medieval - europe

rebab - modern - indonesia

some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap)

Table Aspect

Cell 1 Cell 2
sarangi wd en mb

hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi,
sarangi type:
kashmir (saran)
south afghanistan (sarang)

jammu (saranga)
sarinda wd en jira, is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?)

afghanistan, pakistan and north india (sarinda)

pakistani baluchistan (saroz)
iranian baluchistan (sorud (soruz)) derived from qobuz but more like indian types in use and construction, used for ritual
pakistani sind (surando) sindi and baluchi models have deeper upper bouts than sarinda

rajasthan (surinda) three main strings
Assam (sareja)

bengal (variant long necked svaraj)(belongs to sitar maybe?)

manipur north-east india (sananta)

east & north india (banam)
nepal (sarangi)
nepali sarangi wd en MB!(?)
type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the
ghaychak wd en mb jira cell 2
in its family evolved from the kobyz wd en jira. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi)
dhodro banam aka Santal lute
east & north india (dhodro banam)
cell 2
Kyl kyyak wd ky en mb! Cell 2
Cell 1 Cell 2
Cell 1 Cell 2
Dramyin, Tungana, Sgrna-snyan mb

Folk rabab found in the Himalayas. The number of strings varies from 4, 5, 6, or 7. The name also varies, where local versions may be called Damyan, Dramyen, Dranyen, Dramyin (curiously sometimes spelled sgrna-snyan), or Tungana. Manuscripts from the Moghul period indicate that once this form of rabab was very common in northern India.
Cell 1 Cell 2
dotara dotara_i.gif
svaraj fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) Cell 2

a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba[1]
Ishwari Raj

Mandar Bahar nmm wd? mb!
bass esraj
Cell 2

Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus[2]
Guru Gobind Singh

taus taus.gif
yazh yazh.gif
saung gauk saunggauk.gif
Cell 1 Cell 2
ektara (actually gopichant) gopichant.gif
ektar (actually tumbi) tumbi.gif
dutar dutar_2.jpg
setar setar_i.gif
bin-sitar Cell 2
kamaica Cell 2
ravanhattha ravanhatta_2.jpg
khuur (mongolian fiddles) morin_khuur.gif
Cell 1 Cell 2



rabab-> sarod

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar.