User:ApeKattQuest, MonkeyPython/Spike-fiddles and other Riddles: Difference between revisions
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some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap) |
some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap) |
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= Table Aspect= |
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<table border="1"> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Cell 1</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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</table> |
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<table border="1"> |
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<tr> |
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<td>'''sarangi''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q608650 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarangi en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/79f5331d-d17c-4c2e-8ad0-44144432a754 mb]<br> |
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hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi, <br> |
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sarangi type:<br> |
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kashmir (saran)<br> |
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south afghanistan (sarang)<br> |
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jammu (saranga)<br></td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200205230058if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/sarangi_india_2.jpg</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>'''sarinda''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q348878 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarinda en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-856 jira], is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?)<br> |
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widespread:<br> |
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afghanistan, pakistan and north india (sarinda)<br> |
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: pakistani baluchistan (saroz)<br> |
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: iranian baluchistan (sorud (soruz)) derived from qobuz but more like indian types in use and construction, used for ritual<br> |
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: pakistani sind (surando) sindi and baluchi models have deeper upper bouts than sarinda<br> |
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rajasthan (surinda) three main strings<br> |
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Assam (sareja)<br> |
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: ''bengal (variant long necked svaraj)(belongs to sitar maybe?)''<br> |
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manipur north-east india (sananta)<br> |
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: east & north india (banam)<br> |
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: nepal (sarangi)<br></td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191219134928if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sarinda.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>nepali sarangi [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7423131 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarangi_(Nepali) en] MB!(?)<br> |
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type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191218153957if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sarangi_nepal.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>ghaychak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1521728 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaychak en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/d50ba107-4930-4e0b-8b3f-ffbea4a1ade1 mb] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-371 jira]</td> |
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<td>cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>in its family evolved from the kobyz [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1778051 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobyz en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-439 jira]. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi)<br></td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191217110929if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_k/kobyz.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>dhodro banam aka Santal lute<br> |
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east & north india (dhodro banam)</td> |
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<td>cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Kyl kyyak [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13170382 wd] [https://ky.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8B%D0%BB_%D0%BA%D1%8B%D1%8F%D0%BA ky] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kyl_kyyak&oldid=257894745 en] mb!</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>rabab</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Chikara [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5097384 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chikara_(instrument) en] [https://tickets.metabrainz.org/browse/INST-955 jira]</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220143300if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_c/chikara.jpg</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>sarod</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160511013835if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/sarod_i.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>'''Sursingar''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2372387 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sursingar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/efca0287-2791-4209-b29b-1019891cb8d2 mb] hybrid plucked north indian classical lute invented c1800 by jaffar khan (seniya family)<br> |
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resonator, front and bridge from sitar, upperpart of neck/pegboard like the '''rabab''', tuned and played like '''rabab''', plectrum like sitar.<br> |
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(clearly this is a sitar/rabab hybrid)<br></td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002205if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/musical/instruments/sursringar_i.jpg</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>'''sitar''' [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q229205 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff mb] <br> |
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hindustani sitar seems to have more in common with large uzbek dutar [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1143814 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/b3cf8cff-f7c7-4311-bf4e-cfc09bdb07ca mb] than persian setar [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1544746 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/f1299271-c5d7-4f7c-8b72-d64aa152c3bb mb]<br> |
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sitar and souther tambura [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3541715 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanb%C5%ABra_(lyre) en] MB! (how relates to drone tanbura? [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1164636 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanpura en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/a19ae157-702a-40c6-892f-9bcb97328b7b mb]) to be evolved from the dutar?<br> |
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also Sarasvati vina from this?<br> |
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sitar has frets, tambura not<br> |
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terms "fretted and unfretted tambura" used to distinguish between sitar and fretless drone taMbura<br> |
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:: sursotta (transportable drone tambura)<br> |
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other sitar types: (distribution and related features suggest a common development)<br> |
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carnatic sitar<br> |
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kashmiri setar<br> |
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afghan tanbur<br> |
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gujarati sittarae(poss)<br> |
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<br> |
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modern:<br> |
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most common: <u>Hindustani concert sitar</u> aka tarafdar sitar (singel gourd and duble gourd)<br> |
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: has sympathetic strings, this is mostly commonly just called sitar and is the standard made <br> |
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<u>sada sitar</u> (plain or practice sitar)<br> |
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<u>kachva sitar</u> muhammad khan developed the surbahar from this, name probably a ref to the part of the gourd its used from.<br> |
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small sitar (kinnari veena)<br> |
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carnatic sitar<br></td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160417012026if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/sitar.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>kachva sitar aka kacchapi vina</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<td>surbahar [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q980383 wd] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surbahar en] [https://musicbrainz.org/instrument/1ed558ad-1628-4e5f-8d14-e18e54375cd5 mb]<br> |
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effectively a bass sitar. invented c1820 by ghulam muhammad<br></td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>tanpura aka tambura aka tanpur (etc)</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20140603224228if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/tanpura_ia.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>hansa veena<br> |
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?(novelty)</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206001429if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi2/hansa_veena.png</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>pulluvan veena [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q55525195 wd] [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulluvan_vina ge] mb!</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206001442if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakkipedia/img/pulluvan-veena.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Cell 1</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Cell 1</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>dotara</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20140604010127if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi2/dotara_i.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>'''svaraj''' fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) </td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>esraj<br> |
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a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba<ref name="Esraj på Svenskwiki">{{Cite web|url=https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj}}</ref><br> |
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Ishwari Raj<br> |
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</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002214if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/esraj_2.jpg</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Mandar Bahar [http://collections.nmmusd.org/India/2405MandarBahar/MandarBahar2405.html nmm] wd? mb!<br> |
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bass esraj</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>dilruba<br> |
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Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus<ref name="esraj at en.wiki">{{Cite web|url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esraj#History|title=Esraj History}}</ref><br> |
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Guru Gobind Singh |
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</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220220752if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_d/dilruba.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>taus </td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191228042044if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_t/taus.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>mayuri-vina<br></td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191223221916if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_m/mayuri_veena.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>[[User:CatCat/yazh-yazhoo|yazh]]</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220095908if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_y/yazh.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>saung gauk</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200212130253if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_s/saunggauk.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Cell 1</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>ektara (actually gopichant)</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191220232603if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_g/gopichant.gif<br> |
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http://web.archive.org/web/20200206004750if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/gopichant3.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>ektar (actually tumbi)</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160416194455if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_t/tumbi.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>dutar</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206003251if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/dutar_2.jpg</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>setar</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20160511014833if_/https://saisaibatake.ame-zaiku.com/gakki/imgi/setar_i.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>bin-sitar</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>kamaica</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>ravanhattha</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20200206002924if_/https://graphic.nobody.jp/musical_picture/ravanhatta_2.jpg</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>khuur (mongolian fiddles)</td> |
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<td>http://web.archive.org/web/20191218153959if_/https://digitalstamp.suppa.jp/musical_instruments_m/morin_khuur.gif</td> |
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</tr> |
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<tr> |
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<td>Cell 1</td> |
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<td>Cell 2</td> |
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</tr> |
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</table> |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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.....<br> |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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sara<br> |
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surs<br> |
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suba<br> |
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sita<br> |
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saro<br> |
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sari<br> |
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banam(rebs)<br> |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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'''rabab'''-> sarod<br> |
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<br> |
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<br> |
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https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar. |
Revision as of 13:05, 12 February 2020
How many r*b*b's do we have?:
long-necked rabab (spikefiddle rebab)
lute like ____ where the rebec evolved from (herein the lutes)
double chested rabab (pearshaped lute rubab)
So:
- Spikefiddle, to wit the ghijak wd en mb and the Indonesian Rebab belong...
- Long necked barbed lute (pearshaped lutes!) kamanche, ravaj, read vina
- Short necked fiddle boat-shaped /double chested lutes, herein the sarinda and sarangi families.
Classification aspect
spikefiddle - long neck, tiny soundbox
- Indonesian rebab
- đàn gáo
- đàn hồ
- đàn nhị
- salo/saw lo
- saw sam sai
- saw u
- saw duang
- tro khmer
- tro sau
- tro che
- tro sau thom
- tro u
- tro (research)
- jawza
- konya
- sanxian
- erxian
- huqin (family)
- sihu
- yehu
- dihu
- zhonghu
- banhu
- huluhu
- jinghu
- erhu
- gaohu
- kamancheh
- igil/ikili
- sanshin
- shamisen
- kokyu
- yaylı tambur
- ghijak
- ravanahatha
- haegeum
- (afrikan)
- goje
- njarka
- n'ko
- imzad
bowl (lyra, divergent) larger lute-like soundbox shorter neck
- Byzantine lyra/lira
- Gadulka
- gudok
- gusle
- sintir
- guimbri
- cretan lyra
- calabrian lira
- dalmatian lijerica
- kemenche
- pontic lyra(k of the black sea)
- politiki lyra (classical k)
- rebec
- rabel
- dutar
- çifteli
- cobza
- kobza/bandurka
- komuz
- qanbūs/gambus
- gabusi
- tambouras -> eg lutes, baglamas etc.
- pandur etc
- tambur etc
- tanpura etc
- indian lute, sitar
- cittern, gitten, etc guitar
- etc
double (lute, divergent) two bodied or hollowed out, concave shape, thick short neck
- kobyz
- rubab/rabab (kabuli rebab)
- sarod
- sarangi
- nepalian sarangi (is this really a separate instrument?)
- sarinda
- esraj
- dilruba
- ghaychak
- kyl kyyak
- lyra viol
- viol da gambas
- viol da braccios
- etc
harplike/veena
- taus/mayuri veena/b
- yazh
- saung/saung-gauk
lyre like
- crwth
- rotta
Notes
Rababah - ancient - arabic fiddle -
rebab - medieval - persia
seni rebab - medieval -
kabuli rebab - medieval - arab
rebec - medieval - europe
rebab - modern - indonesia
some interesting https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reb%C3%A1b_(egy%C3%A9rtelm%C5%B1s%C3%ADt%C5%91_lap)
Table Aspect
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
sarangi wd en mb hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi, |
|
sarinda wd en jira, is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?) widespread:
rajasthan (surinda) three main strings
manipur north-east india (sananta)
|
|
nepali sarangi wd en MB!(?) type of lute, evolved from the <strikeout>rabab</strikeout> includes this and the |
|
ghaychak wd en mb jira | cell 2 |
in its family evolved from the kobyz wd en jira. (kobyz, ghaychak, sarangi) |
|
dhodro banam aka Santal lute east & north india (dhodro banam) |
cell 2 |
Kyl kyyak wd ky en mb! | Cell 2 |
rabab | Cell 2 |
Chikara wd en jira | |
sarod | |
Sursingar wd en mb hybrid plucked north indian classical lute invented c1800 by jaffar khan (seniya family) resonator, front and bridge from sitar, upperpart of neck/pegboard like the rabab, tuned and played like rabab, plectrum like sitar. |
|
sitar wd en mb hindustani sitar seems to have more in common with large uzbek dutar wd en mb than persian setar wd en mb
other sitar types: (distribution and related features suggest a common development)
sada sitar (plain or practice sitar) |
|
kachva sitar aka kacchapi vina | Cell 2 |
surbahar wd en mb effectively a bass sitar. invented c1820 by ghulam muhammad |
Cell 2 |
tanpura aka tambura aka tanpur (etc) | |
hansa veena ?(novelty) |
|
pulluvan veena wd ge mb! | |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
dotara | |
svaraj fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj) | Cell 2 |
esraj a kind of cross between sitar and sarangi, it is a modern variant of dilruba[1] |
|
Mandar Bahar nmm wd? mb! bass esraj |
Cell 2 |
dilruba Dilruba is a compacter, mobiler instrument, is based on the heavier Taus[2] |
|
taus | |
mayuri-vina |
|
yazh | |
saung gauk | |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
ektara (actually gopichant) | |
ektar (actually tumbi) | |
dutar | |
setar | |
bin-sitar | Cell 2 |
kamaica | Cell 2 |
ravanhattha | |
khuur (mongolian fiddles) | |
Cell 1 | Cell 2 |
.....
sara
surs
suba
sita
saro
sari
banam(rebs)
rabab-> sarod
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/From-Tri-tantri-Veena-to-Sitar/articleshow/21391436.cms and images on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritantri_vina and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setar (compare image on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitar ) makes it clear that it is the setar that is evolved from the tritantri veena - the sitar https://beta.musicbrainz.org/instrument/9290b2c1-97c3-4355-a26f-c6dba89cf8ff/ an unrelated (but possible distant cousin) was *named* after the Persian setar.