User:Jesus2099/Taped music in concerts
It’s about http://musicbrainz.org/edit/36313706
I don’t have much more than a few minutes per day so I think a 7 day vote period would not be enough to be convinced by or to convince detractors. My internet connection at work is so crappy too… I even have troubles creating this page, hopefully I have notepad.
Taped music in concerts
Recording live attribute
The recording itself is a live recording (the audience, the MC — for video recordings, even with nothing heard, we may see live footage from that date or another date).
There is no such thing in MB as a live recording attribute. So for this we can use the recording comment ([examples http://musicbrainz.org/search?type=recording&method=advanced&query=comment%3Alive]).
Recording (begin/end) date attribute
A (live or not) recording was recorded on some date. we can consider that the tape is not the main recording, the live take is the main recording. The BGM can be considered as a sample in a rap tune or something. So we do mark down the main recording date.
There is no such thing in MB as a (begin/end) date recording attribute. So for this we can use the recording comment ([examples http://musicbrainz.org/search?type=recording&method=advanced&query=comment%3A1977]).
There are indirect ways of having the date as an attribute of some logical thing too. http://musicbrainz.org/recording/9dd88fa1-694d-44ae-9d12-7344a43c1f33 place relationship or artist perform or vocal relationship.
The performance of a work
We don’t store audience screaming, etc. as works in MB. We can store MC texts as we do for poem works and maybe it is already done.
BGM is often an already existing and catalogued recording. A recording that has its own recording (live or not) dates in the past.
The dates and live attributes that appear in work page are hold by the relationship between a recording and that work.
So the relationship between the text work and the concert recording’s MC will hold the live attribute and the begin/end dates of the concert.
When we are on a work page, we might be looking for a live performance of this work, for instance. We don’t want to be fooled that there is a live take of this work that we don’t already own. It would make us buy unnecessary CD for instance, before realising we have been fooled by a misplaced attribute.
So the relationship between the taped work (the BGM work) and the concert recording should hold the same attributes (live/dates) as the actual recording (it usually comes from a studio record).
For the same reason as it would look awkward to see a long dead violinist play live in a David Bowie concert, the relationship between the live recording that contains an older recording and the artists performing in that BGM must hold the same attributes as the original recording of the BGM.
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/dfcbaed6-f984-4618-a2b1-5457257e90c6 If I remember correctly the audience itself is singing this work, so the live and dates attributes on the relationship is OK. Those info should appear in work page.
- http://musicbrainz.org/search?query=(artistname%3A%E9%99%B0%E9%99%BD%E5%BA%A7+OR+artistname%3AGALNERYUS)+AND+comment%3Aaudience&type=recording&limit=100&method=advanced I have adding concert DVD (or CD) for some time. Not a méga-lot but I think more than the average editor I know. So before there was criticism there was already several such recordings in MB
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/de5622dc-87c1-4a48-b8a1-726dc0d098d0 live audience (no relationship) + MC (dated vocal relationship ; it would be overkill to register a work for just a couple of words)
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/a407e965-8001-44ab-87d1-07664348d3ce if the BGM can be identified, we could add a partial relationship to the work as we only hear a short part of it. the recorded concert sound is marked as live with dates in comment. Same as http://musicbrainz.org/recording/85f6f66f-6f3d-4299-84a4-9abfd34e4985 from where the edit note discussion took off.
- Works especially played BGM
- There are many such http://musicbrainz.org/work/24ea41c5-60ac-4db6-90b7-0665cc58bea6 http://musicbrainz.org/work/44cad276-cd7f-3fc2-84b8-10e648111e67 http://musicbrainz.org/search?type=recording&method=direct&query=%E5%BA%8F%E5%B9%95 http://musicbrainz.org/work/3cc82149-330e-3272-8c32-e9b94fd6d1fa http://musicbrainz.org/recording/673d7fe8-5faf-48a0-9fc5-a813bffa7929 http://musicbrainz.org/work/2e8c17fa-6538-349d-a357-23f7bc8accb7 http://musicbrainz.org/work/0f18b8ec-d0e3-3a32-8236-3f4c0ac26a3d http://musicbrainz.org/work/f272c503-e17f-4eda-9885-3334fd42ba6a http://musicbrainz.org/work/5446d97b-4fbc-35c8-92cf-c65e61e5884f http://musicbrainz.org/work/e74becb8-87fd-420d-bac6-0c109891174b http://musicbrainz.org/work/f89e135e-214b-3509-8ffc-11d50383a0b8 http://musicbrainz.org/work/4c12d900-3697-4ea9-934f-955941036d54 http://musicbrainz.org/work/42085c7d-b6c8-4273-80d5-7d58f5c7584e http://musicbrainz.org/work/9bd5262f-f892-4f07-adf4-87cfa4c5279e
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/9c37013c-6495-41e6-9177-421487793477 the typical case of an SE recorded especially for concert BGM. As such it was, as far as I know never played live (piano), contrary to the thus misleading work page http://musicbrainz.org/work/e74becb8-87fd-420d-bac6-0c109891174b (because I have only checked the release I saw).
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/711999dd-c4e0-4ee9-a368-ae0386c02733 special occurence of such a work that is usually BGM (like in http://musicbrainz.org/recording/102b0117-64aa-4ff7-babf-8a0f6dff6100) but this time only it was played live so it’s important to be able to spot that difference on the work page.
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/b8adccdd-61f7-4622-8138-cafc580173c1 a rare case these days without orchestras of an intro performed live.
- http://musicbrainz.org/search?type=recording&method=advanced&query=MC+OR+ENCORE examples of when we hear typical concert sound (audience, artist speaking, etc.) unrelated to works (text works are rare and would be overkill for MC IMO).
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/640a6964-3562-4d58-8684-f3fb7b699e59 where the dated relationship is for the concert sound and where the undated artist performance relationships are for the BGM.
- http://musicbrainz.org/recording/f0bf27ff-a745-46d9-8d83-ad21e7786c1f where the dated artist performer relationship is for the dance and the mimicking and the whole presence. We could add a vocals relationship to the date where this song was recorded for the album it is from. There is a sample relationship, maybe it’s a good idea.