Difference between revisions of "User:RobertKaye/Works Definition"

From MusicBrainz Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
 
(10 intermediate revisions by 4 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
=== Defintion of a Work ===
+
=== Definition of a Work ===
   
  +
A work in MusicBrainz is defined as:
My current attempt at defining a work:
 
   
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
''A Work is a new musical creation or a creative combination of existing musical creations. Works can be performed and recorded to create recordings or recordings can be creatively combined to create new recordings.''
+
''A Work is a musical creation or a creative combination of existing musical creations. Works can be performed and recorded to create recordings. Recordings can be creatively combined to create new recordings, which are also new Works.''
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
   
  +
A creative act involving two or more Recordings creates a both a new Recording as well as a new Work.
By allowing a wider definition of a Work we can capture more information about the Work. For instance, if a compilation of music is considered a Work, then the release level information/ARs can capture the information about the recordings contained in the compilation and the Work level information/ARs can capture the information about the compilation itself.
 
   
 
=== Works for Compilations, DJ-Mixes and Mash-ups ===
 
=== Works for Compilations, DJ-Mixes and Mash-ups ===
   
  +
These types of Recordings consist of two or more original Recordings. The new Recording's Artist Credit gives information about the artist(s) original recording whereas the associated Work for the new Recording gives information about created the compilation, DJ-Mix or Mash-up.
 
 
   
 
=== Artist Credits for Works ===
 
=== Artist Credits for Works ===
   
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
A work artist_credit is used to indicate the artist(s) commonly associated with a work. The actual composer of the work is defined via an artist-work AR.
+
A work artist_credit is used to indicate the artist(s) commonly associated with a work. The actual composer of the work is defined via an artist-work AR. For classical works the artist credit should point to the composer.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
   
  +
Pete Marsh from the BBC recently offered up these edge cases that require more thought about this:
=== ISWCs for Works ===
 
   
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
In most cases, ISWCs should be attached to only one Work. Rare cases may require an ISWC to be attached to multiple works.
+
In most cases as Rob suggested it's going to be reasonably easy to
  +
assign an artist credit to a work. No-one's going to argue with
  +
associating Kylie with Can't Get You Out of My Head or Sinatra with My
  +
Way. Well, actually they might, but here's a few other cases where it's
  +
not by any means cut and dried. I think that who you associate with a
  +
song is down to age and geographical location. There's no right answers
  +
here. Multiple associations might be the only way forward, but I suspect
  +
there's a reason that you haven't suggested that...?
  +
  +
* Mr Tambourine Man - The Byrds or Bob Dylan
  +
* Killing Me Softly - Roberta Flack or The Fugees
  +
* Hallelujah - Leonard Cohen or Jeff Buckley or Alexandra Burke
  +
* Twist and Shout - Isley Brothers or The Beatles
  +
* I Get By With A Little Help From My Friends - The Beatles or Joe Cocker
  +
* Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da - The Beatles or Marmalade
  +
* Father and Son - Cat Stevens or Boyzone
  +
* Barracuda - Heart or Fergie
  +
* Man Who Sold The World - David Bowie or Lulu or Nirvana
  +
* Tainted Love - Soft Cell, Gloria Jones or Marilyn Manson
  +
* First Cut is the Deepest - Rod Stewart, PP Arnold, Cat Stevens
  +
* Boys of Summer - Don Henley or the Ataris
  +
* Knockin' on Heaven's Door - Bob Dylan or Guns 'n' Roses
  +
* My Favourite Things - Julie Andrew or John Coltrane
  +
* Woodstock - Joni Mitchell or Matthews Southern Comfort
  +
  +
These are all off the top of my head but I could go on, and on, and on.
  +
I'm not sure if this counts as the tip of the iceberg but it's maybe not
  +
far off. It gets even trickier when you get to 'standards'. Who would
  +
you associate with 'Summertime'? or 'I've Got You Under My Skin'?
  +
  +
Yikes.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
   
  +
This rule could also be stated using the concept of the '''first recording''':
   
  +
<blockquote>
== Alternative 1 ==
 
  +
A work artist_credit is used to indicate the artist(s) who first recorded with a work. The actual composer of the work is defined via an artist-work AR. For classical works the artist credit should point to the composer.
  +
</blockquote>
   
  +
This fails for some cases like ''Twist and Shout - Isley Brothers or The Beatles'' This song was first recorded by Top Notes then covered by the Isley Brothers. Associating this track with [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist_and_Shout Top Notes]], seems a bit far fetched.
:''A work represents an abstract musical creation/concept which can be performed and recorded to create a recording. Alternatively, a work can be creatively manipulated (i.e. arranged, remixed, sampled, mashed-up, etc.) into a new work, which can then have its own performances and recordings.
 
   
  +
Another possible solution is to not use the Artist Credit field and rely only on ARs to indicate who has performed a work.
I took a stab at a definition, hopefully it's not too wordy. --[[User:PavanChander|navap]] 20:37, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Alternative 2 ==
+
=== ISWCs for Works ===
  +
  +
<blockquote>
  +
In most cases, ISWCs should be attached to only one Work. Rare cases may require an ISWC to be attached to multiple works.
  +
</blockquote>
   
  +
=== Work Types ===
Here's what we ended with when ruoak and I talked about the above 'more liberal' definition in IRC:
 
----
 
: What is a Work?
 
:: A Work is a intentional musical creation, a creative combination of existing Works, or some combination of both.
 
: 'Works' vs. 'Recordings':
 
::* Works can be performed, combined, and/or recorded to create recordings.
 
::* Recordings can be creatively combined to create new Recordings or Works, depending on the situation. (See [[Mix Terminology]] for more details).
 
----
 
It addresses what I saw as the three weaknesses in the original suggested definition (copied from IRC):
 
# Is a lost composition still a Work? (It can't be recorded)
 
# Is a jam or improv "song" a Work? (It is a new musical "creation"... perhaps 'composition' would be better wording?)
 
# This is prob a style Q, outside the definition, but just where does a medley become a Work, not a Recording?
 
   
  +
This page describes proposed [[User:RobertKaye/Works_Types|Work Types]].
ruoak suggested the answers were yes, yes, and yes. I suggested yes, no, and yes/no depending on the situation, though after discussion with ruoak, I could see my answer to #2 being also yes, depending on the situation, though '''not''' yes universally. The above definition was thus where we got to in trying to separate performance/recording from the core definition of a Work, rather than simply something potentially done with a Work (re #1), permitting 'Works' from improvs/jams, but only when it actually seems intended to be a real "jam song" (#2), and trying to find some additional guidance on Work vs Recording for mixes/medleys/comps/etc (#3). [[User:BrianFreud|BrianFreud]] 23:21, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 
   
 
== Tricky things to consider ==
 
== Tricky things to consider ==
Line 56: Line 81:
 
* ARs to the medium level: http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-802
 
* ARs to the medium level: http://jira.musicbrainz.org/browse/MBS-802
 
* Fuzzy ARs: http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz-devel/2010/2010-09/2010-09-13.html#T20-18-59-315250
 
* Fuzzy ARs: http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/musicbrainz-devel/2010/2010-09/2010-09-13.html#T20-18-59-315250
  +
* Covers of covers: [[Next_Generation_Schema/Track_Relationships_Conversion#Cover_Relationship_Type_Discussion]]

Latest revision as of 15:47, 28 September 2010

Definition of a Work

A work in MusicBrainz is defined as:

A Work is a musical creation or a creative combination of existing musical creations. Works can be performed and recorded to create recordings. Recordings can be creatively combined to create new recordings, which are also new Works.

A creative act involving two or more Recordings creates a both a new Recording as well as a new Work.

Works for Compilations, DJ-Mixes and Mash-ups

These types of Recordings consist of two or more original Recordings. The new Recording's Artist Credit gives information about the artist(s) original recording whereas the associated Work for the new Recording gives information about created the compilation, DJ-Mix or Mash-up.

Artist Credits for Works

A work artist_credit is used to indicate the artist(s) commonly associated with a work. The actual composer of the work is defined via an artist-work AR. For classical works the artist credit should point to the composer.

Pete Marsh from the BBC recently offered up these edge cases that require more thought about this:

In most cases as Rob suggested it's going to be reasonably easy to assign an artist credit to a work. No-one's going to argue with associating Kylie with Can't Get You Out of My Head or Sinatra with My Way. Well, actually they might, but here's a few other cases where it's not by any means cut and dried. I think that who you associate with a song is down to age and geographical location. There's no right answers here. Multiple associations might be the only way forward, but I suspect there's a reason that you haven't suggested that...?

  • Mr Tambourine Man - The Byrds or Bob Dylan
  • Killing Me Softly - Roberta Flack or The Fugees
  • Hallelujah - Leonard Cohen or Jeff Buckley or Alexandra Burke
  • Twist and Shout - Isley Brothers or The Beatles
  • I Get By With A Little Help From My Friends - The Beatles or Joe Cocker
  • Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da - The Beatles or Marmalade
  • Father and Son - Cat Stevens or Boyzone
  • Barracuda - Heart or Fergie
  • Man Who Sold The World - David Bowie or Lulu or Nirvana
  • Tainted Love - Soft Cell, Gloria Jones or Marilyn Manson
  • First Cut is the Deepest - Rod Stewart, PP Arnold, Cat Stevens
  • Boys of Summer - Don Henley or the Ataris
  • Knockin' on Heaven's Door - Bob Dylan or Guns 'n' Roses
  • My Favourite Things - Julie Andrew or John Coltrane
  • Woodstock - Joni Mitchell or Matthews Southern Comfort

These are all off the top of my head but I could go on, and on, and on. I'm not sure if this counts as the tip of the iceberg but it's maybe not far off. It gets even trickier when you get to 'standards'. Who would you associate with 'Summertime'? or 'I've Got You Under My Skin'?

Yikes.

This rule could also be stated using the concept of the first recording:

A work artist_credit is used to indicate the artist(s) who first recorded with a work. The actual composer of the work is defined via an artist-work AR. For classical works the artist credit should point to the composer.

This fails for some cases like Twist and Shout - Isley Brothers or The Beatles This song was first recorded by Top Notes then covered by the Isley Brothers. Associating this track with [Top Notes], seems a bit far fetched.

Another possible solution is to not use the Artist Credit field and rely only on ARs to indicate who has performed a work.

ISWCs for Works

In most cases, ISWCs should be attached to only one Work. Rare cases may require an ISWC to be attached to multiple works.

Work Types

This page describes proposed Work Types.

Tricky things to consider