Difference between revisions of "User:Symphonick/unofficial csg work recordings"

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The docs for works & recordings should probably contain a disclaimer "for experienced editors" or something?
 
The docs for works & recordings should probably contain a disclaimer "for experienced editors" or something?
  
==Applicability==
+
==CSG Applicability==
There was a tendency to over-apply the former CSG, so we should start with a list of things where CSG is not used. Holst's "The Planet" suite, songs... Brian wrote something.
+
*There is still a tendency to over-apply CSG, this section must be written before we can start with the works guideline
 +
*"if there is a well defined and non-ambiguous title given by the author, additional information is extra." well said by caramel31
 +
*no cat. no in title for songs, for example (eventually opus numbers should have a special field)
  
===Generic Works===
+
==Works structure==
The term "generic work" is used many times in this document. What we mean is untitled works which has the same name as the form, mostly 17-18th century concertos, sonatas and similar.
+
In general it's the same as in other parts of MB: one song = one work
 +
 
 +
The work-concept in classical MB differs slightly from "popular" MB, because it describes something that exists in physical form (a score). Hence we (can) separate different versions of the same work (popular arrangements & so on).
 +
 
 +
 
 +
====Sub-parts====
 +
A new work should be created for every self-contained movement in the score & linked to the parent work.
 +
Don't create new works for sections that are clearly meant to be performed as one entity by the composer.
 +
That includes titled sections in symphonic poems, scenic instructions in operas and so on. See pseudo works for exceptions.<br/>
 +
 
 +
Currently we have to repeat the title of the main work in all parts.
 +
Always use a colon as delimiter, regardless of language ''(or latin script only?)''<br/>
 +
 
 +
*''sometimes it's not entirely clear in the score if it's a sub-movement part or a new movement''
 +
*''Use the partial recording-AR for recordings that contains only a part of the work.''
 +
 
 +
====Pseudo works====
 +
Sometimes we need to make an exception for partial works that are often recorded. A list of exception would include popular arias from operas (operas that doesn't have self-contained parts smaller than a whole act), the introduction to "Also sprach Zarathustra" and maybe more?
  
===Titles & quotes===
+
====Different versions & revised works====
A vocal work can never be "generic", since there's a title or a quote from the libretto. Some examples of forms that are not generic:
 
Songs, organ chorales
 
  
* If you read the unofficial (now defunct) CSG Standard pages you will see examples of using the format "worktype key catalogue: title in quotes". ex Song i D minor, Op. X No. Y: "Title". Note that this practice was not in the old CSG, just something some of the editors that wrote those pages started doing.
 
  
==Work titles (in general)==
 
Should default to the "original" name, if it's possible to formulate into a guideline.
 
  
===Source===
+
=====Examples=====
Seems like there's consensus about using an urtext score as source, if possible. Some composers have all works in one collection, ex. "Neue Mozart Ausgabe".<br/>
+
Gavotte I / Gavotte II<br/>
 +
Toccata & Fuga<br/>
 +
Menuetto - Trio<br/>
 +
Theme & variations<br/>
 +
*New work entries should not be created when a section of a movement is separated only because of the demands of fitting a work onto a physical recording medium.
 +
*Can we explain Gavotte I / II but not Menuet / Trio?
  
Wikipedia & most online sources are not good enough. The formatting is random and the sources are most likely not what we want.
+
===Generic Works===
* Sometimes libraries have searchable catalogs, could possibly be used, but usually you would have to look inside a printed score.
+
The term "generic work" is used many times in this document. What we mean is untitled works which has the same name as the form, mostly 17-18th century concertos, sonatas and similar works.
* The old CSG standard-pages are not a reliable source, and the title formatting used is deprecated.
+
* ''I'm open for suggestions for a better definition...''
  
===Language===
+
Songs, organ chorales... and of course works with proper titles can not be considered generic, so less standardization from the CSG will apply.
*Note that it's possible that parts of the title in an urtext edition can be translated
 
*original meaning I think I expect Stravinsky's "L'oiseau de feu" to have the French title (premiered in Paris by Ballets Russes), and not the composer's language (Жар-птица)
 
  
====Aliases====
+
* If you read the unofficial (now defunct) CSG Standard pages you will see examples of using the format "worktype key catalogue: title in quotes". ex Song i D minor, Op. X No. Y: "Title". Note that this practice was not in the old CSG, just something some of the editors that wrote those pages started doing.
should be standardized local versions of the workname (+ if the work really has another name; maybe 2 different common names in one langugage).<br/>
 
http://musicbrainz.org/work/aacb1ab0-c740-436a-a782-ed60026cf82b/aliases
 
* Currently we can only have one alias for each language
 
  
===Instrumentation===
+
===Work attributes===
Is often expressed as a subtitle in the score (don't add your own instrumentation). Ideally we should have fields so you could search for instruments. At the moment, we must decide if that subtitle should be used or not. Some examples:
+
Forms such as "Cantata" can be expressed with work attributes, we don't need it in the title anymore. See "generic works" for exceptions.   
<pre>
 
Missa in c, K. 427/417a
 
Sonate pour le pianoforte, Op. 101
 
Quartett in G für zwei Violinen, Viola und Violoncello K. 80/73f
 
Kontretanz in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Hörner, zwei Violinen, Violoncello
 
und Baß K. 123/73g
 
Divertimento in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Klarinetten, zwei Englischhörner, zwei Hörner
 
  und zwei Fagotte K. 186/159b
 
</pre>
 
* the Mozart examples are as printed in the table of contents @ Digital Mozart Edition
 
  
Sometimes instrumentation is needed for disambiguation purposes. Use the comment field in that case.
+
*''If we use "recitativo" now the work [sub-part] won't show up under "cantatas". Maybe we could get some automagic thing going for work parts eventually; tree view in works list, parent name & attribute on sub-part page''
<pre>
 
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (1. Fassung)
 
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2. Fassung)
 
</pre>
 
* disambiguation info from Digital Mozart Edition
 
or should we do our own variant?
 
<pre>
 
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2nd version with clarinets)
 
</pre>
 
Also see arrangments etc. under work-work ARs.
 
  
===Key (only for generic works)===
+
** Argh, setting parts of operas to opera would be arghpleasedon't. Let's have operas appearing as such, not their bits.--[[User:Reosarevok|Reosarevok]] 00:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
"if there is a well defined and non-ambiguous title given by the author, additional information is extra." well said by caramel31<br/>
+
*** I agree (bits of this page is getting outdated). --[[User:Symphonick|symphonick]] 09:25, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
Although it's not really a part of the title, for generic works, it's part of what you would use to identify the work. Use the correct keys for the language in question.
 
<pre>Prelude and Fugue in F-sharp major, BWV 858
 
Trio in A minor, Op. 50
 
Contretanz B-Dur</pre>
 
Not for titled works:
 
<pre>Das alte Jahr vergangen ist, BWV 1091
 
</pre>
 
  
===Catalog(s)===
+
==Work names==
Strictly speaking, the catalogue is not a part of the title. Pete happened to mention the comment field. Would it work for everything, or would we like to keep the standard catalogue for generic works as a part of the title?
+
Should default to the "original" name, if it's possible to formulate into a guideline.
In the title:
+
Sometimes, a work will have very little standardization, or even none at all:
<pre>Daphne, deine Rosenwangen, K. 46c/52</pre>
 
In the comment field:
 
<pre></pre>
 
* note that using the comment field is a workaround, the ultimate goal is that catalogues will have their own field(s).
 
* if the work has more than one catalog, use only the "standard" (often opus) & put the others in the annotation
 
  
==Multi-part works==
+
<pre>
A work that is intended as an entity in it's own would stop here.  
+
Carmen
 +
An die Freude, K. 53/43b
 +
"Wie unglücklich bin ich nit", K. 147/125?
 +
Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben, BWV 147
 +
</pre>
 +
* s/b "German quotes"
 +
* Regarding quotes, follow the score.
  
===Worktype (only for generic works)===
+
===Worktype as title (only for generic works)===
 
Sonata in F minor, Symphony in G major but not for works with titles or quotes:<br/>
 
Sonata in F minor, Symphony in G major but not for works with titles or quotes:<br/>
 
Carmen, Op. ?? not Opera: Carmen or something
 
Carmen, Op. ?? not Opera: Carmen or something
Line 89: Line 77:
 
Kinderszenen: Movement, op. x no y ??
 
Kinderszenen: Movement, op. x no y ??
  
===Movement numbers===
+
===Movement numbers (only multi-part works)===
I recommend using the comment field if a movement number is needed for work disambiguation. Ex. a concerto could contain 3 movements like this:
+
Follow the score. Works with only a few parts are often unnumbered. If the movement is unnumbered in the score and a movement number is needed for work disambiguation, use the comment field? Ex. a concerto could contain 3 movements like this:
 
<pre>Allegro
 
<pre>Allegro
 
Largo
 
Largo
Line 98: Line 86:
 
Largo
 
Largo
 
Allegro (3rd movement)</pre>
 
Allegro (3rd movement)</pre>
Don't add anything to the titles. Sometimes opinion can differ about the boundary of a movement (ex. in Beethoven's sonatas). We will try to agree on a good urtext source for every composer and follow that score.
+
Opinion can differ between different publishers about the boundary of a movement, for example in Beethoven's sonatas. Some editions have 2 movements, others have 3. We will try to agree on a good urtext source for every composer and follow that edition.  
 
* this is a workaround for an UI issue (you can't tell which of the allegro movements you are dealing with when relating works to recordings). we are hoping for a technical solution to the numbering problem.
 
* this is a workaround for an UI issue (you can't tell which of the allegro movements you are dealing with when relating works to recordings). we are hoping for a technical solution to the numbering problem.
  
===Tempo for untitled movements===
+
 
 +
===Tempo as title (generic works only)===
 
You are not supposed to add a tempo to every work. Tempo/character should only be used for works which are usually referred to by tempo. That is mostly for movements of generic multi-part works; concertos, symphonies, sonatas and so on. Works which would otherwise be untitled.
 
You are not supposed to add a tempo to every work. Tempo/character should only be used for works which are usually referred to by tempo. That is mostly for movements of generic multi-part works; concertos, symphonies, sonatas and so on. Works which would otherwise be untitled.
 
<br/>
 
<br/>
Line 108: Line 97:
 
but not in<br/>
 
but not in<br/>
 
<pre>Nocturne in E-flat major, Op. 55 No. 2
 
<pre>Nocturne in E-flat major, Op. 55 No. 2
Prélude No. 2 A-moll, Op. 28</pre>
+
Prélude No. 2 A-moll, Op. 28
You wouldn't refer to this work by tempo, only catalogue and key. Put the tempo
+
The Planets Suite for Orchestra, Op. 32: I. Mars, the bringer of war</pre>
 +
You wouldn't refer to these works by tempo. Put the tempo in the annotation, maybe we will get a tempo field one day?
 
*the Prélude example was in the old CSG with tempo.  
 
*the Prélude example was in the old CSG with tempo.  
  
Line 116: Line 106:
 
<br/>
 
<br/>
 
<pre>Concerto in C major, Op. 2: [Allegro]</pre>
 
<pre>Concerto in C major, Op. 2: [Allegro]</pre>
or not make any difference at all?
+
or just use the tempo from the urtex without any special treatment? (often in italics or inside brackets in the score)
 +
 
 +
====Both form and tempo====
 +
<pre>Finale. Furiant
 +
Rondo. Vivace</pre>
 +
* of course, finale is not a form... better term?
 +
 
 +
Related: sometimes the finale is a rondo, and it has a tempo... not good:
 +
<pre>
 +
Finale. Rondo. Allegro
 +
Finale: Rondo. Allegro
 +
Rondo-finale. Allegro
 +
</pre>
 +
 
 +
====Both instructions and standard tempo marking====
 +
For example, Beethoven's 28th piano sonata is marked "Etwas lebhaft und mit der innigsten Empfindung". Below there is the tempo; Allegretto, ma non troppo. As I see it, the tempo is superfluous here?
 +
<pre>Sonate für das Hammerklavier, Op. 101: Etwas lebhaft und mit der innigsten Empfindung</pre>
  
 
====Multiple tempos====
 
====Multiple tempos====
 
''This is something that really needs limiting. Some editors started to add every tempo change that was inside the movement, there was even discussion about repeats.''<br/>
 
''This is something that really needs limiting. Some editors started to add every tempo change that was inside the movement, there was even discussion about repeats.''<br/>
  
Usually, the only thing that is needed for identifying the movement is the initial tempo. However, sometimes the work can change tempo after a short introduction, or it could contain...
+
Usually, the only thing that is needed for identifying the movement is the initial tempo. However, sometimes the work can change tempo after a short introduction, and then we put in both sections.
<pre>Grande Sonate pathétique, Op. 13: Grave - Allegro di molto e con brio</pre>
+
The other exception is for big form changes like menuetto - trio, when we need to show that the work contains both sections and not just the first (that's not the case with tempo changes otherwise).
 +
 
 +
<pre>Grande Sonate pathétique, Op. 13: Grave - Allegro di molto e con brio
 +
Menuet
 +
</pre>
 +
* avoid using the "form. tempo" construction if you need 2 tempos/sections. It gets confusing quickly.
 +
* instructions like "da capo" & "attacca" does not belong in the title
 +
 
 +
===Instrumentation and subtitles===
 +
The next thing after the basic title is instrumentation, or sometimes another subtitle (instrumentation is often printed as a subtitle in the score). We are only interested in the printed instrumentation, don't add your own. (if it's a generic work, see instrumentation for generic works)
 +
* Ideally we should have fields so we could search for instruments.
 +
 
 +
<pre>
 +
Symphonie Fantastique: Épisode de la vie d'un Artiste...en cinq parties
 +
Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben, Kantate zum Fest Mariae Heimsuchung, BWV 147
 +
Missa in c, K. 427/417a
 +
Sonate pour le pianoforte, Op. 101
 +
Quartett in G für zwei Violinen, Viola und Violoncello K. 80/73f
 +
Kontretanz in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Hörner, zwei Violinen, Violoncello
 +
und Baß K. 123/73g
 +
Divertimento in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Klarinetten, zwei Englischhörner, zwei Hörner
 +
und zwei Fagotte K. 186/159b
 +
</pre>
 +
* the Mozart examples are as printed in the table of contents @ Digital Mozart Edition
 +
* ''need some examples where voice is part of the instrumentation. probably not the cantata-style vocalists for multipart works here. but it depends on how we want to treat subtitles above?''
 +
 
 +
====Instrumentation disambiguation====
 +
Sometimes instrumentation is needed for disambiguation purposes. Use the comment field in that case. (see comment field)
 +
 
 +
====Instrumentation for generic works====
 +
A few generic forms will need added instrumentation, if it's not printed in the score. But that only affects concertos and sonatas, no other forms. Avoid redundant info like "symphony for orchestra".
 +
* and maybe some more...
 +
 
 +
<pre>
 +
Konzert in G, op. XX
 +
</pre>
 +
 
 +
Also see arrangments & transcriptions under work-work ARs.
 +
 
 +
===Key (only for generic works)===
 +
Often it's not a printed part of the title, but for generic works, it's part of what you would use to identify the work.
 +
<pre>Prelude and Fugue in F-sharp major, BWV 858
 +
Trio in A minor, Op. 50
 +
Contretanz B-Dur
 +
Das alte Jahr vergangen ist, BWV 1091</pre>
 +
* Use the correct keys for the language in question.
 +
 
 +
====Standardized keys====
 +
for aliases or do we need standardized keys everywhere?
 +
 
 +
===Catalog(s)===
 +
Strictly speaking, the catalogue is not a part of the title. Pete happened to mention the comment field. Would it work for everything, or would we like to keep the standard catalogue for generic works as a part of the title?
 +
In the title:
 +
<pre>Daphne, deine Rosenwangen, K. 46c/52
 +
Konzert in Es, K. 495: Allegro maestoso</pre>
 +
In the comment field:
 +
<pre>Daphne, deine Rosenwangen (K. 46c/52)
 +
Konzert in Es: Allegro maestoso (K. 495)</pre>
 +
* if the work has more than one catalog, use only the "standard" (often opus) & put the others in the annotation
 +
* note that using the comment field is a workaround, the ultimate goal is that catalogues will have their own field(s).
 +
* catalogue is crucial for searching, will this work if we use the comment field? otherwise we must keep using the title
 +
 
 +
===Common names===
 +
If the work has a canonical common name, it goes in double quotes after the catalog in the title. Common names are language-specific, do not translate!
 +
<pre>
 +
Grand Concerto Pour le Pianoforte avec Accompagnement de l'Orchestre, op. 73
 +
Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat major, Op. 73 "Emperor Concerto"
 +
Mer han en neue Oberkeet. Cantate burlesque, BWV 212 "Bauern-kantate"
 +
</pre>
 +
* we can't use the comment field, common names are language-specific
 +
 
 +
===Dramatic positions (?) / Opera roles===
 +
goes last
 +
* remember the act stuff
 +
 
 +
===Other stuff===
 +
 
 +
====cadenzas====
 +
Are a performance decision & not added to the worktitle. If the cadenza is a separate work, you relate both works to the recording with the performance AR. Otherwise, one assumes the composer's supplied cadenza is used.
 +
* wasn't a part of the old CSG either, the practice comes from the unofficial CSG-standard pages
 +
 
 +
==Work comments==
 +
<pre>
 +
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (1. Fassung)
 +
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2. Fassung)
 +
</pre>
 +
 
 +
* disambiguation info from Digital Mozart Edition
 +
or should we do our own variant?
 +
<pre>
 +
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2nd version with clarinets)
 +
</pre>
 +
 
 +
 
 +
==Work aliases==
 +
sometimes the same urtext edition used for the default work title exists in more than one language.
 +
should be standardized local versions of the workname (+ if the work really has another name; maybe 2 different common names in one langugage).<br/>
 +
If there is no urtext avilable in your language, don't "over-translate". 
 +
* we could also have a (heavily) standardized version in the original language?
 +
<pre>
 +
Original:  Grand Concerto Pour le Pianoforte avec Accompagnement de l'Orchestre op 73
 +
French std: Concerto pour piano en mi bémol majeur op 73
 +
English:    Concerto for piano and orchestra, Op. 73
 +
original:  Grande Sonate pour...
 +
English:    Sonata for piano... mvt no?
 +
original:  Sonata quasi una fantasia,
 +
English:    Sonata quasi una fantasia,
 +
</pre>
 +
 
 +
http://musicbrainz.org/work/aacb1ab0-c740-436a-a782-ed60026cf82b/aliases
 +
* Currently we can only have one alias for each language
 +
 
  
 
==Work - work ARs==
 
==Work - work ARs==
  
 
===Part of work===
 
===Part of work===
''will be updated after the ongoing discussions.''
+
''will be updated. in due course of time.''
  
 
===Arrangements & transcriptions===
 
===Arrangements & transcriptions===
 +
as I see it, a classical work is something that exists physically (a score), so a keyboard transcription would be a different work. And we can attribute the work to the arranger/transcriber. If it's considered the same work, we can't attribute the work to the arranger/transcriber. (must repeat for every recording that uses this transcription).<br/>
 +
 +
====by unknown====
 +
If the arranger/transcriber is unknown, there's nothing to gain by adding another work. Better to use the original work & put the instrumentation in the recording title.
 +
*Arguably it could make sense to have a "default" work for specific instrumentation combinations - especially for songs arranged for piano and string instrument or whatever, it feels pretty silly to mark them as "instrumental recording" of the song even if the arranger isn't known.--[[User:Reosarevok|Reosarevok]] 00:50, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 +
**one for violin & piano, one for flute & piano, one for ... ?? --[[User:Symphonick|symphonick]] 09:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
  
 
==Recordings==
 
==Recordings==
 
Probably the least discussed. I think we have a consensus about using the default worktitle.
 
Probably the least discussed. I think we have a consensus about using the default worktitle.
  
 +
===Artist Credits===
 +
Recording Artist Credits should link to the performer, not the composer; composer information should be included in a linked work (by way of the recording-work performance AR).
 +
 +
Where this would result in confusingly similar recording title/artist combinations on more than one recording done of works by different composers, the composer(s) may be added to the Comment field, but should not be added to the artist credit. This way, the composer will appear in contextual search (such as the "Relate to..." dialog) without needing to pollute the artist credit or the title.
  
 
===Keys & instrumentation===
 
===Keys & instrumentation===
Line 143: Line 270:
 
Also the specific voice for a song could be different from the original.
 
Also the specific voice for a song could be different from the original.
 
* what to to w. high/low voice versions? very common for piano + voice. Have heard berlioz nuits... in different keys.
 
* what to to w. high/low voice versions? very common for piano + voice. Have heard berlioz nuits... in different keys.
* don't add artificial keys?
+
* don't add your own keys - it must be printed on the release
* A=415Hz belongs in the annotation
+
* A=415Hz and similar belongs in the annotation
  
 
===Performer disambiguation===
 
===Performer disambiguation===
It looks like we can finally get rid of the old UI-workaround, which meant that we had to add performers to the title of the release and releasegroup. However, we still need a way to distinguish between different recordings of the same work, so we ask that you add the primary performer(s) to the comment field for the recording. Try to keep it to a minimum, only what's needed to separate the recording from another recording of the same work.
+
We can finally get rid of the old UI-workaround, which meant that we had to add performers to the title of the release and releasegroup. See "Artist Credits" above.
  
 
===Aliases===
 
===Aliases===
Line 154: Line 281:
 
==The recording-work performance AR==
 
==The recording-work performance AR==
 
ongoing discussions
 
ongoing discussions
 +
 +
==The recording-artist performance AR==
 +
avoid headings in the instrument tree, like "violins" & "bowed string instruments".
 +
* can we say that the most appropriate AR for chamber music ensembles (<10 players = not an orchestra) is simply "performed"?
 +
** I definitely think the most appropriate AR for a string quartet is "strings", even if it's a header...--[[User:Reosarevok|Reosarevok]] 00:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 09:59, 4 August 2012

Status: Notes, questions & comments from the discussions about CSG for works & recordings & mb-style. This is NOT a guideline.

The docs for works & recordings should probably contain a disclaimer "for experienced editors" or something?

CSG Applicability

  • There is still a tendency to over-apply CSG, this section must be written before we can start with the works guideline
  • "if there is a well defined and non-ambiguous title given by the author, additional information is extra." well said by caramel31
  • no cat. no in title for songs, for example (eventually opus numbers should have a special field)

Works structure

In general it's the same as in other parts of MB: one song = one work

The work-concept in classical MB differs slightly from "popular" MB, because it describes something that exists in physical form (a score). Hence we (can) separate different versions of the same work (popular arrangements & so on).


Sub-parts

A new work should be created for every self-contained movement in the score & linked to the parent work. Don't create new works for sections that are clearly meant to be performed as one entity by the composer. That includes titled sections in symphonic poems, scenic instructions in operas and so on. See pseudo works for exceptions.

Currently we have to repeat the title of the main work in all parts. Always use a colon as delimiter, regardless of language (or latin script only?)

  • sometimes it's not entirely clear in the score if it's a sub-movement part or a new movement
  • Use the partial recording-AR for recordings that contains only a part of the work.

Pseudo works

Sometimes we need to make an exception for partial works that are often recorded. A list of exception would include popular arias from operas (operas that doesn't have self-contained parts smaller than a whole act), the introduction to "Also sprach Zarathustra" and maybe more?

Different versions & revised works

Examples

Gavotte I / Gavotte II
Toccata & Fuga
Menuetto - Trio
Theme & variations

  • New work entries should not be created when a section of a movement is separated only because of the demands of fitting a work onto a physical recording medium.
  • Can we explain Gavotte I / II but not Menuet / Trio?

Generic Works

The term "generic work" is used many times in this document. What we mean is untitled works which has the same name as the form, mostly 17-18th century concertos, sonatas and similar works.

  • I'm open for suggestions for a better definition...

Songs, organ chorales... and of course works with proper titles can not be considered generic, so less standardization from the CSG will apply.

  • If you read the unofficial (now defunct) CSG Standard pages you will see examples of using the format "worktype key catalogue: title in quotes". ex Song i D minor, Op. X No. Y: "Title". Note that this practice was not in the old CSG, just something some of the editors that wrote those pages started doing.

Work attributes

Forms such as "Cantata" can be expressed with work attributes, we don't need it in the title anymore. See "generic works" for exceptions.

  • If we use "recitativo" now the work [sub-part] won't show up under "cantatas". Maybe we could get some automagic thing going for work parts eventually; tree view in works list, parent name & attribute on sub-part page
    • Argh, setting parts of operas to opera would be arghpleasedon't. Let's have operas appearing as such, not their bits.--Reosarevok 00:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
      • I agree (bits of this page is getting outdated). --symphonick 09:25, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Work names

Should default to the "original" name, if it's possible to formulate into a guideline. Sometimes, a work will have very little standardization, or even none at all:

Carmen
An die Freude, K. 53/43b
"Wie unglücklich bin ich nit", K. 147/125?
Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben, BWV 147
  • s/b "German quotes"
  • Regarding quotes, follow the score.

Worktype as title (only for generic works)

Sonata in F minor, Symphony in G major but not for works with titles or quotes:
Carmen, Op. ?? not Opera: Carmen or something Nun komm der Heiden Heiland, BWV 599 not organ chorale, BWV 599 "Nun komm"
same for songs If it's part of a collection with a generic title "3 songs for SATB", don't use the name of the collection. If the collection is a title by the composer "Kinderszenen" it should be used: Kinderszenen: Movement, op. x no y ??

Movement numbers (only multi-part works)

Follow the score. Works with only a few parts are often unnumbered. If the movement is unnumbered in the score and a movement number is needed for work disambiguation, use the comment field? Ex. a concerto could contain 3 movements like this:

Allegro
Largo
Allegro

Add a disambiguation comment for the allegro movements:

Allegro (1st movement)
Largo
Allegro (3rd movement)

Opinion can differ between different publishers about the boundary of a movement, for example in Beethoven's sonatas. Some editions have 2 movements, others have 3. We will try to agree on a good urtext source for every composer and follow that edition.

  • this is a workaround for an UI issue (you can't tell which of the allegro movements you are dealing with when relating works to recordings). we are hoping for a technical solution to the numbering problem.


Tempo as title (generic works only)

You are not supposed to add a tempo to every work. Tempo/character should only be used for works which are usually referred to by tempo. That is mostly for movements of generic multi-part works; concertos, symphonies, sonatas and so on. Works which would otherwise be untitled.

Concerto in D major, Op. 1: I. Allegro
Adagio & Allegro, Op. XX

but not in

Nocturne in E-flat major, Op. 55 No. 2
Prélude No. 2 A-moll, Op. 28
The Planets Suite for Orchestra, Op. 32: I. Mars, the bringer of war

You wouldn't refer to these works by tempo. Put the tempo in the annotation, maybe we will get a tempo field one day?

  • the Prélude example was in the old CSG with tempo.

no tempo from composer

can be in italics in the score. we could use brackets?

Concerto in C major, Op. 2: [Allegro]

or just use the tempo from the urtex without any special treatment? (often in italics or inside brackets in the score)

Both form and tempo

Finale. Furiant
Rondo. Vivace
  • of course, finale is not a form... better term?

Related: sometimes the finale is a rondo, and it has a tempo... not good:

Finale. Rondo. Allegro
Finale: Rondo. Allegro
Rondo-finale. Allegro

Both instructions and standard tempo marking

For example, Beethoven's 28th piano sonata is marked "Etwas lebhaft und mit der innigsten Empfindung". Below there is the tempo; Allegretto, ma non troppo. As I see it, the tempo is superfluous here?

Sonate für das Hammerklavier, Op. 101: Etwas lebhaft und mit der innigsten Empfindung

Multiple tempos

This is something that really needs limiting. Some editors started to add every tempo change that was inside the movement, there was even discussion about repeats.

Usually, the only thing that is needed for identifying the movement is the initial tempo. However, sometimes the work can change tempo after a short introduction, and then we put in both sections. The other exception is for big form changes like menuetto - trio, when we need to show that the work contains both sections and not just the first (that's not the case with tempo changes otherwise).

Grande Sonate pathétique, Op. 13: Grave - Allegro di molto e con brio
Menuet 
  • avoid using the "form. tempo" construction if you need 2 tempos/sections. It gets confusing quickly.
  • instructions like "da capo" & "attacca" does not belong in the title

Instrumentation and subtitles

The next thing after the basic title is instrumentation, or sometimes another subtitle (instrumentation is often printed as a subtitle in the score). We are only interested in the printed instrumentation, don't add your own. (if it's a generic work, see instrumentation for generic works)

  • Ideally we should have fields so we could search for instruments.
Symphonie Fantastique: Épisode de la vie d'un Artiste...en cinq parties
Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben, Kantate zum Fest Mariae Heimsuchung, BWV 147
Missa in c, K. 427/417a
Sonate pour le pianoforte, Op. 101
Quartett in G für zwei Violinen, Viola und Violoncello K. 80/73f
Kontretanz in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Hörner, zwei Violinen, Violoncello 
 und Baß K. 123/73g
Divertimento in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Klarinetten, zwei Englischhörner, zwei Hörner 
 und zwei Fagotte K. 186/159b
  • the Mozart examples are as printed in the table of contents @ Digital Mozart Edition
  • need some examples where voice is part of the instrumentation. probably not the cantata-style vocalists for multipart works here. but it depends on how we want to treat subtitles above?

Instrumentation disambiguation

Sometimes instrumentation is needed for disambiguation purposes. Use the comment field in that case. (see comment field)

Instrumentation for generic works

A few generic forms will need added instrumentation, if it's not printed in the score. But that only affects concertos and sonatas, no other forms. Avoid redundant info like "symphony for orchestra".

  • and maybe some more...
Konzert in G, op. XX

Also see arrangments & transcriptions under work-work ARs.

Key (only for generic works)

Often it's not a printed part of the title, but for generic works, it's part of what you would use to identify the work.

Prelude and Fugue in F-sharp major, BWV 858
Trio in A minor, Op. 50
Contretanz B-Dur
Das alte Jahr vergangen ist, BWV 1091
  • Use the correct keys for the language in question.

Standardized keys

for aliases or do we need standardized keys everywhere?

Catalog(s)

Strictly speaking, the catalogue is not a part of the title. Pete happened to mention the comment field. Would it work for everything, or would we like to keep the standard catalogue for generic works as a part of the title? In the title:

Daphne, deine Rosenwangen, K. 46c/52
Konzert in Es, K. 495: Allegro maestoso

In the comment field:

Daphne, deine Rosenwangen (K. 46c/52)
Konzert in Es: Allegro maestoso (K. 495)
  • if the work has more than one catalog, use only the "standard" (often opus) & put the others in the annotation
  • note that using the comment field is a workaround, the ultimate goal is that catalogues will have their own field(s).
  • catalogue is crucial for searching, will this work if we use the comment field? otherwise we must keep using the title

Common names

If the work has a canonical common name, it goes in double quotes after the catalog in the title. Common names are language-specific, do not translate!

Grand Concerto Pour le Pianoforte avec Accompagnement de l'Orchestre, op. 73
Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-flat major, Op. 73 "Emperor Concerto"
Mer han en neue Oberkeet. Cantate burlesque, BWV 212 "Bauern-kantate"
  • we can't use the comment field, common names are language-specific

Dramatic positions (?) / Opera roles

goes last

  • remember the act stuff

Other stuff

cadenzas

Are a performance decision & not added to the worktitle. If the cadenza is a separate work, you relate both works to the recording with the performance AR. Otherwise, one assumes the composer's supplied cadenza is used.

  • wasn't a part of the old CSG either, the practice comes from the unofficial CSG-standard pages

Work comments

Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (1. Fassung)
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2. Fassung)
  • disambiguation info from Digital Mozart Edition

or should we do our own variant?

Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2nd version with clarinets)


Work aliases

sometimes the same urtext edition used for the default work title exists in more than one language. should be standardized local versions of the workname (+ if the work really has another name; maybe 2 different common names in one langugage).
If there is no urtext avilable in your language, don't "over-translate".

  • we could also have a (heavily) standardized version in the original language?
Original:   Grand Concerto Pour le Pianoforte avec Accompagnement de l'Orchestre op 73
French std: Concerto pour piano en mi bémol majeur op 73
English:    Concerto for piano and orchestra, Op. 73
original:   Grande Sonate pour...
English:    Sonata for piano... mvt no?
original:   Sonata quasi una fantasia,
English:    Sonata quasi una fantasia,

http://musicbrainz.org/work/aacb1ab0-c740-436a-a782-ed60026cf82b/aliases

  • Currently we can only have one alias for each language


Work - work ARs

Part of work

will be updated. in due course of time.

Arrangements & transcriptions

as I see it, a classical work is something that exists physically (a score), so a keyboard transcription would be a different work. And we can attribute the work to the arranger/transcriber. If it's considered the same work, we can't attribute the work to the arranger/transcriber. (must repeat for every recording that uses this transcription).

by unknown

If the arranger/transcriber is unknown, there's nothing to gain by adding another work. Better to use the original work & put the instrumentation in the recording title.

  • Arguably it could make sense to have a "default" work for specific instrumentation combinations - especially for songs arranged for piano and string instrument or whatever, it feels pretty silly to mark them as "instrumental recording" of the song even if the arranger isn't known.--Reosarevok 00:50, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
    • one for violin & piano, one for flute & piano, one for ... ?? --symphonick 09:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Recordings

Probably the least discussed. I think we have a consensus about using the default worktitle.

Artist Credits

Recording Artist Credits should link to the performer, not the composer; composer information should be included in a linked work (by way of the recording-work performance AR).

Where this would result in confusingly similar recording title/artist combinations on more than one recording done of works by different composers, the composer(s) may be added to the Comment field, but should not be added to the artist credit. This way, the composer will appear in contextual search (such as the "Relate to..." dialog) without needing to pollute the artist credit or the title.

Keys & instrumentation

This will not be a copy from the work name, instead it will actually follow what's recorded. A flute piece played on the violin, a violin solo sonata transposed to viola. Sometimes a work can even be published with variants for more than one instrument by the composer.

  • if by the editor...?

Also the specific voice for a song could be different from the original.

  • what to to w. high/low voice versions? very common for piano + voice. Have heard berlioz nuits... in different keys.
  • don't add your own keys - it must be printed on the release
  • A=415Hz and similar belongs in the annotation

Performer disambiguation

We can finally get rid of the old UI-workaround, which meant that we had to add performers to the title of the release and releasegroup. See "Artist Credits" above.

Aliases

Not available, but there is an open ticket.

The recording-work performance AR

ongoing discussions

The recording-artist performance AR

avoid headings in the instrument tree, like "violins" & "bowed string instruments".

  • can we say that the most appropriate AR for chamber music ensembles (<10 players = not an orchestra) is simply "performed"?
    • I definitely think the most appropriate AR for a string quartet is "strings", even if it's a header...--Reosarevok 00:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)