User:Symphonick/unofficial csg work recordings
|Status: Notes, questions & comments from the discussions about CSG for works & recordings & mb-style. This is NOT a guideline.|
The docs for works & recordings should probably contain a disclaimer "for experienced editors" or something?
- 1 Applicability
- 2 Work titles (in general)
- 3 Multi-part works
- 4 Work - work ARs
- 5 Recordings
- 6 The recording-work performance AR
There was a tendency to over-apply the former CSG, so we should start with a list of things where CSG is not used. Holst's "The Planet" suite, songs... Brian wrote something.
The term "generic work" is used many times in this document. What we mean is untitled works which has the same name as the form, mostly 17-18th century concertos, sonatas and similar.
Titles & quotes
A vocal work can never be "generic", since there's a title or a quote from the libretto. Some examples of forms that are not generic: Songs, organ chorales
- If you read the unofficial (now defunct) CSG Standard pages you will see examples of using the format "worktype key catalogue: title in quotes". ex Song i D minor, Op. X No. Y: "Title". Note that this practice was not in the old CSG, just something some of the editors that wrote those pages started doing.
Work titles (in general)
Should default to the "original" name, if it's possible to formulate into a guideline.
Seems like there's consensus about using an urtext score as source, if possible. Some composers have all works in one collection, ex. "Neue Mozart Ausgabe".
Wikipedia & most online sources are not good enough. The formatting is random and the sources are most likely not what we want.
- Sometimes libraries have searchable catalogs, could possibly be used, but usually you would have to look inside a printed score.
- The old CSG standard-pages are not a reliable source, and the title formatting used is deprecated.
- Note that it's possible that parts of the title in an urtext edition can be translated
- original meaning I think I expect Stravinsky's "L'oiseau de feu" to have the French title (premiered in Paris by Ballets Russes), and not the composer's language (Жар-птица)
should be standardized local versions of the workname (+ if the work really has another name; maybe 2 different common names in one langugage).
- Currently we can only have one alias for each language
Is often expressed as a subtitle in the score (don't add your own instrumentation). Ideally we should have fields so you could search for instruments. At the moment, we must decide if that subtitle should be used or not. Some examples:
Missa in c, K. 427/417a Sonate pour le pianoforte, Op. 101 Quartett in G für zwei Violinen, Viola und Violoncello K. 80/73f Kontretanz in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Hörner, zwei Violinen, Violoncello und Baß K. 123/73g Divertimento in B für zwei Oboen, zwei Klarinetten, zwei Englischhörner, zwei Hörner und zwei Fagotte K. 186/159b
- the Mozart examples are as printed in the table of contents @ Digital Mozart Edition
Sometimes instrumentation is needed for disambiguation purposes. Use the comment field in that case.
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (1. Fassung) Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2. Fassung)
- disambiguation info from Digital Mozart Edition
or should we do our own variant?
Sinfonie in g, KV 550 (2nd version with clarinets)
Also see arrangments etc. under work-work ARs.
Key (only for generic works)
"if there is a well defined and non-ambiguous title given by the author, additional information is extra." well said by caramel31
Although it's not really a part of the title, for generic works, it's part of what you would use to identify the work. Use the correct keys for the language in question.
Prelude and Fugue in F-sharp major, BWV 858 Trio in A minor, Op. 50 Contretanz B-Dur
Not for titled works:
Das alte Jahr vergangen ist, BWV 1091
Strictly speaking, the catalogue is not a part of the title. Pete happened to mention the comment field. Would it work for everything, or would we like to keep the standard catalogue for generic works as a part of the title? In the title:
Daphne, deine Rosenwangen, K. 46c/52
In the comment field:
- note that using the comment field is a workaround, the ultimate goal is that catalogues will have their own field(s).
- if the work has more than one catalog, use only the "standard" (often opus) & put the others in the annotation
A work that is intended as an entity in it's own would stop here.
Worktype (only for generic works)
Sonata in F minor, Symphony in G major but not for works with titles or quotes:
Carmen, Op. ?? not Opera: Carmen or something Nun komm der Heiden Heiland, BWV 599 not organ chorale, BWV 599 "Nun komm"
same for songs If it's part of a collection with a generic title "3 songs for SATB", don't use the name of the collection. If the collection is a title by the composer "Kinderszenen" it should be used: Kinderszenen: Movement, op. x no y ??
Follow the score. Works with only a few parts are often unnumbered. If the movement is unnumbered in the score and a movement number is needed for work disambiguation, use the comment field. Ex. a concerto could contain 3 movements like this:
Allegro Largo Allegro
Add a disambiguation comment for the allegro movements:
Allegro (1st movement) Largo Allegro (3rd movement)
Opinion can differ between different publishers about the boundary of a movement, for example in Beethoven's sonatas. Some editions have 2 movements, others have 3. We will try to agree on a good urtext source for every composer and follow that edition.
- this is a workaround for an UI issue (you can't tell which of the allegro movements you are dealing with when relating works to recordings). we are hoping for a technical solution to the numbering problem.
Tempo for untitled movements
You are not supposed to add a tempo to every work. Tempo/character should only be used for works which are usually referred to by tempo. That is mostly for movements of generic multi-part works; concertos, symphonies, sonatas and so on. Works which would otherwise be untitled.
Concerto in D major, Op. 1: I. Allegro Adagio & Allegro, Op. XX
but not in
Nocturne in E-flat major, Op. 55 No. 2 Prélude No. 2 A-moll, Op. 28
You wouldn't refer to this work by tempo, only catalogue and key. Put the tempo
- the Prélude example was in the old CSG with tempo.
no tempo from composer
can be in italics in the score. we could use brackets?
Concerto in C major, Op. 2: [Allegro]
or not make any difference at all?
Form and tempo
Finale. Allegro Rondo. Vivace
Instructions and standard tempo marking
For example, Beethoven's 28th piano sonata is marked "Etwas lebhaft und mit der innigsten Empfindung". Below there is the tempo; Allegretto, ma non troppo. As I see it, the tempo is superfluous here?
Sonate für das Hammerklavier, Op. 101: Etwas lebhaft und mit der innigsten Empfindung
This is something that really needs limiting. Some editors started to add every tempo change that was inside the movement, there was even discussion about repeats.
Usually, the only thing that is needed for identifying the movement is the initial tempo. However, sometimes the work can change tempo after a short introduction, or it could contain...
Grande Sonate pathétique, Op. 13: Grave - Allegro di molto e con brio
- avoid form. tempo - form. tempo or form. tempo - form. form. tempo - tempo could work if it's absolutely necessary
Work - work ARs
Part of work
will be updated after the ongoing discussions.
Arrangements & transcriptions
Probably the least discussed. I think we have a consensus about using the default worktitle.
Keys & instrumentation
This will not be a copy from the work name, instead it will actually follow what's recorded. A flute piece played on the violin, a violin solo sonata transposed to viola. Sometimes a work can even be published with variants for more than one instrument by the composer.
- if by the editor...?
Also the specific voice for a song could be different from the original.
- what to to w. high/low voice versions? very common for piano + voice. Have heard berlioz nuits... in different keys.
- don't add artificial keys?
- A=415Hz belongs in the annotation
It looks like we can finally get rid of the old UI-workaround, which meant that we had to add performers to the title of the release and releasegroup. However, we still need a way to distinguish between different recordings of the same work, so we ask that you add the primary performer(s) to the comment field for the recording. Try to keep it to a minimum, only what's needed to separate the recording from another recording of the same work.
Not available, but there is an open ticket.
The recording-work performance AR