User talk:CatCat/v*na

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Revision as of 17:11, 2 March 2020 by CatCat (talk | contribs) (Created page with "junk from the veena ticket: . . . . here follows the entirety of oppsamlet wikipedia-article paste research: . +tube zither+ 24 wood frets 4 main melody strings and...")
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junk from the veena ticket:



here follows the entirety of oppsamlet wikipedia-article paste research: .

+tube zither+ 24 wood frets 4 main melody strings and 2-3 secondary chikari strings and one drone laraj string karaj pa sa ma (copper bass bronze) chikaris (steel) laraj (copper bass bronze)

tube zithers, a later development of the stick zither. Tube-zither: A (plucked or bowed) musical instrument whose strings are stretched all the way along its resonator which is made of a wooden tube. .

+Possibly more veena tickets needed:+ ekatantri veena [1] alapini veena kinnari veena

shruti veena 

veena named things: saradiya veena (sarod) pinaki veena (sarangi) saptatantri veena (sitar) shatatantri veena (santoor) mayuri vina (taus) dhodro banam sarinda .

ektar dotar setar ekatantri(ektara) dvi-tantri(dutar) saptatantri(sitar)

ekatantri -> a distant descendant gottuvadjam (chitra veena) kinnari, alapini -> their design survives in the rudra veena Saraswati and drone tanpura evolved into longnecked lutes middleage names nakuli and tritantri veena (is it bar zither or lute?)

tritantri -> setar \-(name)\-> sitar . .

+Various stuff from several wikipedia articles.+ (Also there is need to translate the german ones which have more information. Further enwiki has merged the dilruba and the esraj, while we do have them separate. (here is stuff taken from an old revision of the now redirecting page))

The Dilruba (Punjabi: ਦਿਲਰੁਬਾ) is an Indian string instrument found in two forms throughout the Indian subcontinent. It is a relatively young instrument, being only about 300 years old. The Dilruba (translated as heart stealing) is found in North India, primarily Punjab, where it is used in Sikh music and Hindustani classical compositions and in West Bengal. The Esraj is a modern variant of the Dilruba, differing slightly in structure.

The Dilruba and its variant, the Esraj, had been declining in popularity for many decades. By the 1980s, the instrument was nearly extinct. However with the rising influence of the "Gurmat Sangeet" movement, the instrument has been once again attracting considerable attention. The dilruba was created some 300 years ago by the 10th Sikh guru, Guru Gobind Singh, who based it on the much older, and heavier, taus[1][2] This made it more convenient for the Khalsa, the Sikh army, to carry the instrument on horseback.

esraj The same instrument family includes rubab, sarangi, sarinda and dilruba.

For similar shaped instruments, see Ghaychak (Persia), Kobyz (Kazakhstan), Kyl kyyak (Kyrgyzstan), Sarinda (India & Nepali), Dhodro banam (Santhals in East India) Sarangi (Nepali), etc. .

banam ->pecking violins (ekatara) (Dhodro) banam -> sarinda/saranda -> sarangi (or [backwards|]?)

 ?nepalese sarangi -> chikara

banam -> saranda ->taus/mayurivina -> dilruba -> esraj

+some names in different places+ pa: sorud/surando/saro in: sarinda iran: ghaychak (ghicka -> kamanche) central asia: kobyz indian sringara differs and is closer to afgan _rabab_ ([sursingar|]) +kashmir: saran/ sarang (similar to kashmiri plucked _rabab_)+

+in addition, grove+

  • sarangi*

hindustani classical music, rajasthani folk sarangi, nepali sarangi sarangi type: kashmir (saran) south afganistan (sarang) jammu (saranga) .

.type of lute, evolved from the *rabab* includes this and the ghaychack in its family evolved from the kobyz. (kobyz, ghaychac sarangi)

  • sarinda*, is related to and may derive from central asian shamans-fiddle qobuz (kobys?)

widespread: afganistan, pakistan and north india (sarinda)

pakistani baluchistan (saroz)
iranian baluchistan (sorud (soruz)) derived from qobuz but more like indian types in use and construction, used for ritual
pakistani sind (surando) sindi and baluchi models have deeper upper bouts than sarinda

rajasthan (surinda) three main strings Assam (sareja) _{color:#707070} bengal (variant long necked svaraj)(belongs to sitar maybe?){color}_ manipur north-east india (sananta) east & north india (banam) nepal (sarangi) .


  • sitar*

hindustani sitar seems to have more in common with large uzbek dutar than persian setar sitar and souther tambura (drone tanbura? yes!) to be evolved from the dutar? also Sarasvati vina from this? sitar has frets, tambura not terms "fretted and unfretted tambura" used to distinguish between sitar and fretless drone taMbura

   sursotta (transportable drone tambura)

+other sitar types:+ (distribution and related features suggest a common development) carnatic sitar kashmiri setar afgan tanbur gujarati sittarae(poss)

modern: most common: +Hindustani concert sitar+ aka tarafdar sitar (singel gourd and duble gourd)

has sympathetic strings, this is mostly commonly just called sitar and is the standard made 

+sada sitar+ (plain or practice sitar) +kachva sitar+ muhammad khan developed the surbahar from this, name probably a ref to the part of the gourd its used from. small sitar (kinnari veena) carnatic sitar .

surbahar effectively a bass sitar. invented c1820 by ghulam muhammad .

  • Sursingar* hybrid plucked north indian classica lute invented c1800 by jaffar khan (seniya family)

resonator, front and bridge from sitar, upperpart of neck/pegboard like the *rabab*, tuned and played like *rabab*, plectrum like sitar. (clearly this is a sitar/rabab hybrid) it has a sub-branch the sitariya (see sitar \-_\-)

  • rabab* -> sarod

double chested *rabab* (pearshaped lute rubab) long-necked {color:#707070}rabab{color} (spikefiddle rebab)


  • svaraj* fretless long necked plucked lute from bangladesj, it is a bangl version of the bengali/northindian dotara, it ought to be spelled saraj (see esraj)


+Conclusions:+ To be added: the banam and the [sarinda|]. is the sarinda the same as the saranda? What to do with the nepalese sarangi, is it reeally different enough to be separated? it seems only enwiki (therefore commons and WD) keeps them separate, we have it combined and, even _Nepalese_ wikipedia just redirects one to the other. (the name sounds the same but नेपाली redirects to सारङ्गी )


rebab/rubab is a difficult names instrument, one is specifically a different thing which is not related to this(the thin spikefiddle), while one is indeed related(pearshaped lutefiddle/li(y)ra), herein also the ghaychak/ghijak problem from INST-371 is related:

{color:#707070}rebab: bowed string instrument often has a spike at the bottom to rest on the ground and is thus called a spike fiddle in certain areas, but plucked versions like the kabuli rebab (sometimes referred to as the robab or rubab) also exist. {color}

Besides the spike fiddle variant, there +also exists a variant with a pear-shaped body+(rubab?), quite similar to the Byzantine lyra and the Cretan lyra. This latter variant travelled to western Europe in the 11th century,[3] and became the rebec.

rebec: bowed stringed instrument of the Medieval and the early Renaissance era. In its most common form, it has a narrow boat-shaped body and 1-5 strings. Played on the arm or under the chin, the technique and tuning may have influenced the development of the violin. Popular from the 13th to 16th centuries, the introduction of the rebec into Western Europe coincided with the Arabic conquest of the Iberian Peninsula. There is however evidence of the existence of bowed instruments in the 9th century in Eastern Europe. The Persian geographer of the 9th century Ibn Khurradadhbih cited the bowed Byzantine lira (or lūrā) as typical bowed instrument of the Byzantines and equivalent to the Arab rebab.(the pearshaped variant aka rubab?)

rubab lute-like musical instrument originating from central Afghanistan (arab or afgan?)

sarod The sarod is widely believed to have descended from the Afghan rubab, a similar instrument originating in Central Asia and Afghanistan.[1] Many scholars of Indian classical music believe that the sarod is a combination of the ancient +Chitra veena+, the medieval Rabab and modern +Sursingar+. There is also speculation that the oud may be the origin of the sarod.

sursingar: It is larger than the sarod and produces a deeper sound. It precedes the sarod chronologically. (so the sarod is a combo of this and the chitra. here "medieval rabab", is pearshaped arabafgan rubab? ) .

+interlude+ rebab: unrelated spikefiddle (\?) rubab: pearshaped arab/afgan lute/lira relevant here (\?) rabab: -idk?? (poss nothing but an alias for either)- rabab is a two bodied lute (aka the kabuli rebab) (either name is used for either thing, but for our uses it is imperative we make a decision for each name and Stick To It! ) .


This article is about the north Indian "Seni rebab" used by Sikhs. For the Afghan plucked instrument otherwise known as the "Kabuli rebab", see Rubab. For the bowed spike fiddle, as used in Arab countries and in the Indonesian gamelan, see Rebab. For the mediaeval European instrument sometimes called the "rubible", see Rebec.

The Calabrian lira is closely related to the bowed lira (Greek: λύρα) of the Byzantine Empire. The Persian geographer of the 9th century Ibn Khurradadhbih (died 911) was the first to cite the Byzantine lira, as a typical bowed instrument of the Byzantines (Margaret J. Kartomi, 1990). Similar bowed instruments descendants of the Byzantine lira have continued to be played in many post-Byzantine regions until the present day with small changes: the gadulka in Bulgaria, the lyra of Crete and the Dodecanese in Greece,the lyra of Pontos and the classical kemenche (Turkish:Armudî kemençe, Greek:Πολίτικη Λύρα ~ Politiki lira) in Turkey. The Byzantine lira spread westward to Europe, with uncertain evolution; authors in the 11th and 12th centuries use the words fiddle and lira interchangeably (Encyclopædia Britannica. 2009). . .

This is how these then relate to eachother and to instruments already in the database: rubab -> byzant lyra -> cretan lyra -> lira da braccio, (classical)kemenche, calabrian lira, rubab \-(Byzantine/Cretan li(y)ra)\-> rebec rubab ->sursingar -> sarod

. . . .

spikefiddle, to wit the ghjichak and the kemenche belong... short necked fiddle boat-shaped (appears similar to double chested ones and may these pre-evolution) long necked barbed lute (pearshaped lutes?!) kamance ravaj read vina double chested lutes, herein the sarinda and sarangi families.


Of course the Spike lutes will eventually need a work(separate ticket group) too, but for now just dump stuff here: spike: nihsanka veena -> ravanahatha -> arab rebab rebab->kamancheh .

Er soll ein weiteres Streichinstrument erfunden haben, das er nihsanka vina nannte und das ein Vorfahr der ravanahattha gewesen sein könnte.