Difference between revisions of "History:SG5 Disaster Relief"

From MusicBrainz Wiki
((Imported from MoinMoin))
m (Code changes)
 
(28 intermediate revisions by 15 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
'''Subject''': ''These are the plans to solve the major problem of [[Style Guideline|StyleGuideline]] 5 ([[Featuring Artist Style|FeaturingArtistStyle]]) which are to be implemented in the short term. So we are not completly [[Getting Rid Of Featuring Artist Style|GettingRidOfFeaturingArtistStyle]]. In the medium term it can be made more acceptable via interface changes like the [[Artist Page Redesign|ArtistPageRedesign]]. A more detailed solution should come along with the [[Next Generation Schema|NextGenerationSchema]] in the long term.''  
+
'''Subject''': ''These are the steps to solve the major problem of [[Style Guideline|StyleGuideline]] 5 ([[Featuring Artist Style|FeaturingArtistStyle]]) which has been implemented in the [http://blog.musicbrainz.org/archives/2006/01/server_updated_2.html 2006-01-08 Server Update]. We are not completly [[Getting Rid Of Featuring Artist Style|GettingRidOfFeaturingArtistStyle]]. In the medium term it can be made more acceptable via interface changes like the [[Artist Page Redesign|ArtistPageRedesign]]. A more detailed solution should come along with the [[Next Generation Schema|NextGenerationSchema]] in the long term.''  
  
The plans are as follows:  
+
The changes are as follows:
# Allow albums with various artists on the tracks but which are attributed to one artist to be moved to this artist.  
+
# Allow releases with various [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]]s but which are attributed to one artist to be moved to this [[Release Artist|ReleaseArtist]].  
# Change the [[Style Guideline|StyleGuideline]] like this: "If two or more primary artists perform on a track, create a collaboration artist for them and attach the track to it." (this is roughly the [[Featuring Artist Style Alternative|FeaturingArtistStyleAlternative]]) ''Note, that the use of "feat." will still be valid for guest performing artists.''
+
# Change the text of the [[Featuring Artist Style|FeaturingArtistStyle]] to state: "If two or more ''equally primary'' artists perform on a track, create a collaboration artist for them and attach the track to it. This has been done. See the [[History Of Featuring Artist Style|HistoryOfFeaturingArtistStyle]] for the old guideline.  
  
==Code changes==
+
''Note, that the use of "feat." is still valid for guest performing artists.''  
 
 
The first part requires code changes such that:
 
* The album listing will show albums which have
 
** [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]] == current artist ''or''  
 
** >= 1 track with [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] == current artist and [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]] != current artist.
 
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">(The old logic here was >= 1 [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] == current artist and [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]] == [[Various Artists|VariousArtists]])
 
</ul>
 
  
* When listing tracks of an album, the [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s will only be shown if one or more tracks have a [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] != [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]].
+
===HowTo===
* Albums which have [[Various Artists|VariousArtists]] as [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]] (that is which are [[Various Artist Album|VariousArtistAlbum]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s currently) get a '''Move''' link which allows moving them to a different [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]].
 
* Probably we have to adjust the tagger libs a bit for this.
 
* Each album with only one distinct track artist will now have a '''Show Artists''' link that will show the each of the artists and the associated '''Change''' links that lets the user quickly change one track artist.
 
* The option to '''Convert to multiple artists''' will ask 
 
** what to do with the [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]] (set Various Artists as album artist or leave old album artist) and
 
** what to do with the [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s (leave old artist for all tracks or move tracks to new artists)
 
  
The code changes will be open for testing on the test server before being released. Also the changes will be further announced (especially important for the customers) and subject to [[Beta Editing|BetaEditing]].  
+
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">[http://musicbrainz.org/artist/0383dadf-2a4e-4d10-a46a-e9e041da8eb3.html Queen] and [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/5441c29d-3602-4898-b1a1-b77fa23b8e50.html David Bowie] are main artists of the track ''Under Pressure'' on the Queen release [http://musicbrainz.org/album/24a355b3-940d-4428-b54d-d830fb5766f6.html Hot Space]. The changes that need to be done to reflect this situation while keeping the [[Release Artist|ReleaseArtist]] Queen are as follows:
 +
# Click on '''Show artists'''
 +
# Click on '''(Change)''' for the track artist of ''Under Pressure''.  
 +
# Change the track artist to "Queen & David Bowie"
  
==Examples==
 
 
* The Queen albums which are attributed to Queen on the cover and have all tracks by Queen except one which is by "Queen & David Bowie" are changed in the following way:
 
** Simple method
 
**# Klick on "Show artists"
 
**# Klick on "(Change)" for the [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] that you want to change
 
**# Change the [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] of the one track to a newly created collaboration "Queen & David Bowie"
 
 
** Complicated method (old) (should this not be deleted?)
 
**# Convert the album to [[Various Artists|VariousArtists]]
 
**# Change the [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] of the one track to a newly created collaboration "Queen & David Bowie"
 
**# Move the album to the artist Queen
 
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">
 
{| border="1"
 
|-
 
|  [[Image:Alert.png]] ''You have to un-check "Move Tracks to Album Artist", such that only the Album Artist is affected by the Move, but not the Tracks.''
 
|}
 
 
</ul>
 
</ul>
  
This is a bit work but the result should be acceptable for everyone. ;)
+
===Release Examples===
* The album [http://musicbrainz.org/album/495652e1-d9b7-40c5-8490-10a87b91dba6.html The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring] is nearly completly by Howard Shore except the last track which is by Enya. You could move the album to Howard Shore. This would have the following consequences:
 
** The album appears in the discography of Howard Shore (in one of the main sections).
 
** The album appears in one of the VA sections of Enya.
 
** When looking at the album you see Howard Shore above it and the correct artist listed for every track.
 
  
* The double album [http://musicbrainz.org/newsearch.html?search=The+K%26D+Sessions&table=album The K&D Sessions] is added again and again to the artist [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/6b49dc39-cb6f-465f-980b-bc17a271da34.html Kruder & Dorfmeister] because they remixed it and so it is attributed to them. You could move it to this artist and it would appear under their albums - but the remixed tracks still show the original artists.  
+
* The release [http://musicbrainz.org/album/495652e1-d9b7-40c5-8490-10a87b91dba6.html The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring] is nearly completly by Howard Shore except the last track which is by Enya. You could move the release to Howard Shore. This would have the following consequences:
 +
** The release appears in the discography of Howard Shore (in one of the main sections).
 +
** The release appears in one of the VA sections of Enya.
 +
** When looking at the release you see Howard Shore above it and the correct artist listed for every track.  
  
==Editing==
+
* The double release [http://musicbrainz.org/newsearch.html?search=The+K%26D+Sessions&table=album The K&D Sessions] is added again and again to the artist [http://musicbrainz.org/artist/6b49dc39-cb6f-465f-980b-bc17a271da34.html Kruder & Dorfmeister] because they remixed it and so it is attributed to them. You could move it to this artist and it would appear under their releases - but the remixed tracks still show the original artists.
  
As you can see in some cases you'd need several atomic edits until you are where you want to be with an album (convert to VA, change track artist, move to SA). Therefore it's recommended to add notes with exhaustive explanations to the edits and links to each other. Also as some of the changes do not appear under subscribable artists you might want to tell people to vote on those changes if you are not an [[Auto Moderator|AutoModerator]] so that they won't fail and you can go on with the work on it.
+
==Code changes==
  
==Discussion==
+
The implemented changes (released on 2006-01-08): <dl><dt>Artist page shows releases with
 +
<dd>
 +
  
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">[[Image:Attention.png]] ''This discussion is getting too long to read. Please [[Edit Mercilessly|EditMercilessly]] and start further threads in an appropriate forum like the [[Mailing List|MailingList]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s. --[[User:DonRedman|DonRedman]]''  
+
[[Release Artist|ReleaseArtist]] == current artist ''or''  
</ul>
+
  
How does a compilation with a track by Pearl Jam & Cypress Hill ([http://musicbrainz.org/showartist.html?artistid=306208 http://musicbrainz.org/showartist.html?artistid=306208]) be handled? This collaboration artist only appears twice, both times on a 'real' Various Artists release. At the moment '''and''' after this relief has been implemented those 2 releases won't show up under either Pearl Jam or Cypress Hill. --[[User:Zout|Zout]]
+
one or more tracks with [[Track Artist|TrackArtist]] == current artist (only shown, if 1 didn't match)
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Yes that is correct. There will, however, be an [[Advanced Relationship|AdvancedRelationship]] that states that both Pearl Jam and Cypress Hill collaborated on "Pearl Jam & Cypress Hill". These [[Advanced Relationship Type|AdvancedRelationshipType]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s will be presented more prominently in the upcoming [[Artist Page Redesign|ArtistPageRedesign]]. --[[User:DonRedman|DonRedman]]
+
<dt>Release page
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">So all of a sudden *all* objections to the [[Featuring Artist Style Alternative|FeaturingArtistStyleAlternative]] are gone? I suggest you mention this before making this official, otherwise there will be problems. --[[User:Zout|Zout]]
+
<dd>
</ul>
+
</ul>
 
  
----
+
Track artists are shown when at leat one track artist is different than the release artist.
 +
  
When moving a VA release to a [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]], there is the option "Move Tracks to Album Artist", which actually is the same as "Convert to single artist". I suggest removing this option, as it is counter-intuitive. Instead of the check box, there can be a text saying something like "If you want all tracks to be by the same artist, you need to Convert to single artist instead". --[[User:Zout|Zout]]
+
[[Various Artists Release|VariousArtistsRelease]]s and [[Multiple Artists Release|MultipleArtistsRelease]]s have a '''Move''' link which allows moving them to a different release artist.  
 +
  
----
+
[[Single Artist Release|SingleArtistRelease]]s have a new '''Show Artists''' link that reveals the track artists in the display and allows changing them. (Changing one or more artists automatically "transforms" the release into a [[Various Artists|VariousArtists]] release.
 +
  
If I understand correctly, the [[Album Artist|AlbumArtist]] on a release is set for releases that are e.g. Greatest Hits by a single artist, but that have one or more tracks on it that are collaborations or maybe by a member of the group. Also, for DJ-Mixes, the DJ Mixer should be the 'main artist'. Should be, at the same time, forbid the use of '(Mixed by ...)' in [[Release Title|ReleaseTitle]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s? This can now be captured by adding a DJ-Mix AR and changing the 'main' artist. Any more cases? -[[User:Zout|Zout]]
+
'''Convert to multiple artists''' asks for changes to the release as well as the track artists.  
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I'd say DJ-mixes should be regular VA albums, not under DJ as a main artist. --[[Lu Kz|LuKz]] (For typical DJ-Mix albums take a look at [http://www.discogs.com/artist/Sasha+%26+John+Digweed Sasha & John Digweed]'s releases, also the DE9 series of [http://www.discogs.com/artist/Richie+Hawtin Richie Hawtin]) I agree with [[Lu Kz|LuKz]], I suggest to list the AR (DJ-Mixed, Remixed track, Production...) under the album list. The same way as on [http://www.discogs.com/artist/Kruder+%26+Dorfmeister discogs]  --[[User:Schika|Schika]] 
+
<dt>Tagger and Libraries
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Well, your proposition contradicts what [[Lu Kz|LuKz]] said above. I concur with [[User:Fuchs|Fuchs]], that we are gradually shifting our focus to be more accurate, and therefore need to write what's on the cover. Actually, we used Kruder & Dorfmeister as an actual example why we need album artists for albums, which can have different track artists. Of course, they did much more than compile the albums - unlike compilation mix artists who do nothing more than selecting and x-fading the tracks. But there are different shades of gray, that's why it's probably the best to go for what's written on the cover for DJ-mix albums, too. --[[G0llum]]
+
<dd>
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">No, g0llum, I want exactly the same as Schika. Listing the albums with ARs in the album list and crediting DJs/Remixers as a main artists are two separate things. Of course this listing doesn't have to be implemented at the same time as SG5DisasterRelief. I just think that having albums by ''Artist'' remixed by various artists in the same section as VA albums remixed by ''Artist'' is not very good solution. (Btw, can we move this discussion to the mailing list? It looks like a start of nice flame-war :) ) --[[Lu Kz|LuKz]]
+
</ul>
 
</ul>I contacted Tarragon yesterday and explained the situation and that we probably need guidelines for this. For the Kruder & Dorfmeister example they are really credited for the work, they remixed all the tracks, not just did DJ-mixing and compiling. Discogs says about artists: "This refers to the main credited artist for the release." - I think this is the best description for it. Always use the artist that is clearly credited for it - mostly you can go by cover for this. Typical examples for DJ-mix artists: [http://www.cover-paradies.to/?fCall=ShowImage&vId=92238&vType=Front http://www.cover-paradies.to/?fCall=ShowImage&vId=92238&vType=Front] - here it has the mix artist on the cover. On other similar releases they only mention them on the back cover. I don't think they should be the credited artist because this is minor work but that has to be decided by the style council. On the summit we agreed that it is only good to take as much albums as possible out of the unobserved VA area. --[[User:Shepard|Shepard]]
 
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">The guideline could be as simple as '''The artist on the cover of a release must be used as its album artist.''' This doesn't affect ARs at all. The [[Artist Role|ArtistRole]] can still be specified with an AR. We need to stop seeing the album/release artist as a "main artist", but as an artist string an album/release is credited to.--[[User:Fuchs|Fuchs]]
 
</ul>
 
</ul>
 
 
 
----
 
  
 +
[[Tune Pimp|TunePimp]] was changed to reflect the changes shown above.
 
   
 
   
  
* These VA albums with primary artists are neither VA nor single artists, they are both (to varying degrees). Obviously some people would want them to be one way rather than the other. If people don't have a way to specify this in the tagger (I suggest "Album Artists: always use, never use, ask each time" and allowing easy manual overrides on a case-by-case basis) then you're asking for big arguments about when this applies and when it doesn't. If people have the option then generally 'more info' would always be better.
+
[[Picard Tagger|PicardTagger]] was changed to reflect the server code changes. Further, 2 new naming variables <code>%albumartist</code> and <code>%albumartistsortname</code> were added.  
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">I don't understand this. Each track has an artist and picard assigns those artists to the right tracks (mp3s, oggs, whatever). Where do you want it to put the album artist? --[[User:Fuchs|Fuchs]]  
+
</dl>
</ul>
 
 
 
* Albums with identical artists on every track behave as [[Single Artist|SingleArtist]].
 
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">Yes, this is intended. The showalbum page puts the album artist, as well as the track artists into a bag. if there are more than 1 artist in this bag, then the track artists are displayed. There has been no change in the database schema, because we did this in the most straight-forward way possible. Remove all the references to the Various Artists special case artist and replaced it with the pseudo-code method described above. You have to move one track to another artist first before you can move the album to the new artist. This is all described in the steps above. Same thing applies to the checkbox. We needed the move album moderation to be able to move either album/track artists or both, and we did that - without changing the other moderation types (sac, and mac to be specific) --[[G0llum]]
 
</ul>
 
 
 
* just thought of a third, somewhat related issue. Since this appears to be sanctioning quasi-'artists' such as 'Queen and David Bowie' it would be nice if there was a third option on the edit artist screen as they are not really a 'person' or a 'group', perhaps 'collaboration' would be appropriate? --[[User:bawjaws|bawjaws]]
 
<ul><li style="list-style-type:none">A musicbrainz '''group''' just means ''more than one person'', it's doesn't mean band nor orchestra nor collaboration nor football team. Roles of individuals are defined as [[Advanced Relationship|AdvancedRelationship]]<code><nowiki></nowiki></code>s to a group. --[[User:Fuchs|Fuchs]]
 
</ul>
 
 
 
* final comment: is it worth linking to the various test edits from here, or can someone run a query on the test server later and return all VA albums with a primary artist? I think it will often be self explanatory what's going on from the data so the latter should do if it is possible. --[[User:bawjaws|bawjaws]]
 
  
[[Category:To Be Reviewed]] [[Category:Open Style Issue]] [[Category:Development]]
+
[[Category:History]]

Latest revision as of 16:25, 25 October 2011

Subject: These are the steps to solve the major problem of StyleGuideline 5 (FeaturingArtistStyle) which has been implemented in the 2006-01-08 Server Update. We are not completly GettingRidOfFeaturingArtistStyle. In the medium term it can be made more acceptable via interface changes like the ArtistPageRedesign. A more detailed solution should come along with the NextGenerationSchema in the long term.

The changes are as follows:

  1. Allow releases with various TrackArtists but which are attributed to one artist to be moved to this ReleaseArtist.
  2. Change the text of the FeaturingArtistStyle to state: "If two or more equally primary artists perform on a track, create a collaboration artist for them and attach the track to it. This has been done. See the HistoryOfFeaturingArtistStyle for the old guideline.

Note, that the use of "feat." is still valid for guest performing artists.

HowTo

  • Queen and David Bowie are main artists of the track Under Pressure on the Queen release Hot Space. The changes that need to be done to reflect this situation while keeping the ReleaseArtist Queen are as follows: # Click on Show artists # Click on (Change) for the track artist of Under Pressure. # Change the track artist to "Queen & David Bowie"

Release Examples

  • The release The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is nearly completly by Howard Shore except the last track which is by Enya. You could move the release to Howard Shore. This would have the following consequences:
    • The release appears in the discography of Howard Shore (in one of the main sections).
    • The release appears in one of the VA sections of Enya.
    • When looking at the release you see Howard Shore above it and the correct artist listed for every track.
  • The double release The K&D Sessions is added again and again to the artist Kruder & Dorfmeister because they remixed it and so it is attributed to them. You could move it to this artist and it would appear under their releases - but the remixed tracks still show the original artists.

Code changes

The implemented changes (released on 2006-01-08):

Artist page shows releases with
ReleaseArtist == current artist or one or more tracks with TrackArtist == current artist (only shown, if 1 didn't match)
Release page
Track artists are shown when at leat one track artist is different than the release artist. VariousArtistsReleases and MultipleArtistsReleases have a Move link which allows moving them to a different release artist. SingleArtistReleases have a new Show Artists link that reveals the track artists in the display and allows changing them. (Changing one or more artists automatically "transforms" the release into a VariousArtists release. Convert to multiple artists asks for changes to the release as well as the track artists.
Tagger and Libraries
TunePimp was changed to reflect the changes shown above. PicardTagger was changed to reflect the server code changes. Further, 2 new naming variables %albumartist and %albumartistsortname were added.