Difference between revisions of "MusicBrainz Summit/5"

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{{DocumentationHeader|Archive|Communication}}
 
 
 
==Summit Notes==
 
==Summit Notes==
  
 
===Thursday, November 20th 2003 (Dave and Rob in Bedford)===
 
===Thursday, November 20th 2003 (Dave and Rob in Bedford)===
  
* daily.sh  
+
* daily.sh
** Switch data dumps to every other day to save bandwidth  
+
** Switch data dumps to every other day to save bandwidth
** Put replication in place and then switch full dumps to once a week  
+
** Put replication in place and then switch full dumps to once a week
** Possibly add another replication off site machine to do RDF dumps  
+
** Possibly add another replication off site machine to do RDF dumps
** Synchronize the data dumps/RDF dumps to align with replication packet serial numbers  
+
** Synchronize the data dumps/RDF dumps to align with replication packet serial numbers
  
* Review of progress on the Advanced Relationships work  
+
* Review of progress on the Advanced Relationships work
** [[Advanced Relationships|AdvancedRelationships]] coming along -- perhaps a week's work (system time) work left to beta.  
+
** [[Advanced Relationships|AdvancedRelationships]] coming along -- perhaps a week's work (system time) work left to beta.
** Do a complete event model later  
+
** Do a complete event model later
** Release Events: (complete)  
+
** Release Events: (complete)
*** Create a new table that covers: release event (optional month/date), territory ISO two letter country code  
+
*** Create a new table that covers: release event (optional month/date), territory ISO two letter country code
*** * May optionally add release notes later if need arises  
+
*** * May optionally add release notes later if need arises
*** * Add a default two letter country code to preferences  
+
*** * Add a default two letter country code to preferences
  
** Consider a general notes concept that allows us to attach notes to any entity  
+
** Consider a general notes concept that allows us to attach notes to any entity
  
* Linking to MB  
+
* Linking to MB
** Make the artist and release pages use MBIDs to allow weblogs and other pages to easy link to MB.  
+
** Make the artist and release pages use MBIDs to allow weblogs and other pages to easy link to MB.
*** Perhaps create an internal caching scheme to not impact the database looking up slower ids  
+
*** Perhaps create an internal caching scheme to not impact the database looking up slower ids
  
** Create a JavaScript method for copying links to MB with icons  
+
** Create a JavaScript method for copying links to MB with icons
** Consider creating a supercession table to allows forwarding of MBIDs in case releases get merged, deleted, etc.  
+
** Consider creating a supercession table to allows forwarding of MBIDs in case releases get merged, deleted, etc.
*** Keep track of last used date and lookup counts to allow pruning this data  
+
*** Keep track of last used date and lookup counts to allow pruning this data
  
* Discuss necessary changes for the mb_server for replication  
+
* Discuss necessary changes for the mb_server for replication
** Use separate user for replication and let this user write to the DB. Normal musicbrainz_user would have no write access on the slaves  
+
** Use separate user for replication and let this user write to the DB. Normal musicbrainz_user would have no write access on the slaves
** Add a mirror sever setting to DBDefs.pm  
+
** Add a mirror sever setting to DBDefs.pm
** Have the login page redirect to the main server.  
+
** Have the login page redirect to the main server.
** Have the possibility of replicating sanitized moderator information.  
+
** Have the possibility of replicating sanitized moderator information.
** Deny RDF submits for mirror servers  
+
** Deny RDF submits for mirror servers
** Check out what other pages need to redirect to the main server (reports)
+
** Check out what other pages need to redirect to the main server (reports)
  
* Further replication tasks:  
+
* Further replication tasks:
** Schema version # (monotonically increasing, starting at 1)  
+
** Schema version # (monotonically increasing, starting at 1)
** Store current schema version # in DbDefs.pm  
+
** Store current schema version # in DbDefs.pm
** Require users to hand update from CVS initially if schema version # changes. Later we will add a more automated method for updating.  
+
** Require users to hand update from CVS initially if schema version # changes. Later we will add a more automated method for updating.
  
 
===Friday November 21st 2003===
 
===Friday November 21st 2003===
  
In attendance:  
+
In attendance:
* Jamie Munro (host)  
+
* Jamie Munro (host)
* Dave Evans  
+
* Dave Evans
* Robert Kaye  
+
* Robert Kaye
  
Karma system  
+
Karma system
* Not all contributions can be redeemed for all benefits. (eg. a cash contribution should not give moderation trust)  
+
* Not all contributions can be redeemed for all benefits. (eg. a cash contribution should not give moderation trust)
* Contributions:
+
* Contributions:
** Code, testing, documentation -> leads to developer trust  
+
** Code, testing, documentation -> leads to developer trust
** Moderating, voting -> leads to moderator reputation/trust  
+
** Moderating, voting -> leads to moderator reputation/trust
** Cash -> leads to cash reputation  
+
** Cash -> leads to cash reputation
** Referrals via the HTML links to MB -> leads to promotion reputation/trust  
+
** Referrals via the HTML links to MB -> leads to promotion reputation/trust
  
* Benefits  
+
* Benefits
** automod status can only be archived via mod/vote contributions  
+
** automod status can only be archived via mod/vote contributions
** Advanced tagger features can be accessed by achieving a certain karma level  
+
** Advanced tagger features can be accessed by achieving a certain karma level
** schwag/amazon credit (give out a percent of of $$$ taken in)  
+
** schwag/amazon credit (give out a percent of of $$$ taken in)
** credit/visibility (visual cues, email@mb alias)  
+
** credit/visibility (visual cues, email@mb alias)
** Core supporters (identify and credit the core people who make MB happen)  
+
** Core supporters (identify and credit the core people who make MB happen)
  
Notes:  
+
Notes:
* Use points not cash  
+
* Use points not cash
* Core supporters can give points for thinker or other non-tangible contributions  
+
* Core supporters can give points for thinker or other non-tangible contributions
* Use a weighting system to determine if people qualify for a certain benefit  
+
* Use a weighting system to determine if people qualify for a certain benefit
* Automod contributions use a sliding window (must maintain votes/mod to maintain status)  
+
* Automod contributions use a sliding window (must maintain votes/mod to maintain status)
* Cash donations unlock advanced tagger features for a fixed period of time.  
+
* Cash donations unlock advanced tagger features for a fixed period of time.
  
Improve voting issues:  
+
Improve voting issues:
* Finish the one moderation release edit feature  
+
* Finish the one moderation release edit feature
* Number of votes required to pass a moderation is inversely proportional to quality of the moderator (good moderators will require few or no votes, bad/unknown moderators require more votes)  
+
* Number of votes required to pass a moderation is inversely proportional to quality of the moderator (good moderators will require few or no votes, bad/unknown moderators require more votes)
* Automoderators can cast more votes than one (moderators can chose how many votes to cast)  
+
* Automoderators can cast more votes than one (moderators can chose how many votes to cast)
* When logged in, add an iframe to the artist/release pages that shows one moderation to vote on:  
+
* When logged in, add an iframe to the artist/release pages that shows one moderation to vote on:
** Show votes for this artist or if none, then  
+
** Show votes for this artist or if none, then
** Show votes for artists in the subscribed list, or if none, then  
+
** Show votes for artists in the subscribed list, or if none, then
** Show votes for related artists, or if none, then  
+
** Show votes for related artists, or if none, then
** Show random votes  
+
** Show random votes
  
Other suggestions:  
+
Other suggestions:
* Jamie suggest that we need to create a mozilla search plugin a la [[MusicMoz]] (got to [http://mycroft.mozdev.org/ http://mycroft.mozdev.org/] and search for music)  
+
* Jamie suggest that we need to create a mozilla search plugin a la [[MusicMoz]] (got to [http://mycroft.mozdev.org/ http://mycroft.mozdev.org/] and search for music)
* Jamie suggest that we should have a type of moderator that is specific to a band -- hopefully a band member. This moderator could have veto power over the changes made to the artist in question.  
+
* Jamie suggest that we should have a type of moderator that is specific to a band -- hopefully a band member. This moderator could have veto power over the changes made to the artist in question.
  
 
===Saturday November 22nd 2003===
 
===Saturday November 22nd 2003===
  
In attendance:  
+
In attendance:
* [http://www.audioscrobbler.com Audioscrobbler]/[http://www.last.fm Last.fm]: RJ, Russ, John  
+
* [http://www.audioscrobbler.com Audioscrobbler]/[http://www.last.fm Last.fm]: RJ, Russ, John
* [[MusicMoz]]: Richard Fuller  
+
* [[MusicMoz]]: Richard Fuller
* [[MusicBrainz]]: Robert, Dave, Jamie  
+
* [[MusicBrainz]]: Robert, Dave, Jamie
  
[http://www.audioscrobbler.com Audioscrobbler]/[http://www.last.fm Last.fm] notes:  
+
[http://www.audioscrobbler.com Audioscrobbler]/[http://www.last.fm Last.fm] notes:
* Audioscrobbler to host own MB database mirror to handle plugin lookups  
+
* Audioscrobbler to host own MB database mirror to handle plugin lookups
* AS plans to integrate tagging features in AS plugins  
+
* AS plans to integrate tagging features in AS plugins
* MB tagger should do some statistical gathering to create a graph of tagger accuracy  
+
* MB tagger should do some statistical gathering to create a graph of tagger accuracy
* Relationships: Artist to artist and release to release, no track to track because of resource issues. May become possible once MB is fully integrated  
+
* Relationships: Artist to artist and release to release, no track to track because of resource issues. May become possible once MB is fully integrated
* People to people matching profiles  
+
* People to people matching profiles
* Some moderation voting atop Audioscrobbler pages if required  
+
* Some moderation voting atop Audioscrobbler pages if required
* RipCd.pl for RJ and/or add ripping support to Tagger to aid the ripping process of Last.fm  
+
* RipCd.pl for RJ and/or add ripping support to Tagger to aid the ripping process of Last.fm
* Special MB moderator should be created that submits moderations from AS/last.fm  
+
* Special MB moderator should be created that submits moderations from AS/last.fm
* How do we share logins?
+
* How do we share logins?
** At first AS will require regular MB logins  
+
** At first AS will require regular MB logins
** Later we may create a Web service for creating login  
+
** Later we may create a Web service for creating login
** or share logins with as_username
+
** or share logins with as_username
  
* Jamie will contact the Liberty Alliance about single login -- perhaps we can be an example case  
+
* Jamie will contact the Liberty Alliance about single login -- perhaps we can be an example case
  
[[MusicMoz]]:  
+
[[MusicMoz]]:
* Contains accurate info that doesn't disappear  
+
* Contains accurate info that doesn't disappear
* Uses the same structure as dmoz  
+
* Uses the same structure as dmoz
* Contains reviews, releases, general info about artist  
+
* Contains reviews, releases, general info about artist
* Whole database is a hierarchy.  
+
* Whole database is a hierarchy.
* Runs on donated hardware/software  
+
* Runs on donated hardware/software
** requires a new more powerful server for mirror  
+
** requires a new more powerful server for mirror
  
* CC license is a question to put to the community, uses DMOZ license currently  
+
* CC license is a question to put to the community, uses DMOZ license currently
  
[[MusicMoz]] integration plan  
+
[[MusicMoz]] integration plan
* Goal: Add [[MusicMoz]] links to the MB website and encourage MB users to participate in [[MusicMoz]]  
+
* Goal: Add [[MusicMoz]] links to the MB website and encourage MB users to participate in [[MusicMoz]]
* initial match of artists and loading: provide artist name, sortname, mbid, releases and release ids to RF  
+
* initial match of artists and loading: provide artist name, sortname, mbid, releases and release ids to RF
* for creating a new artist musicmoz sends artist, sortname, uuid, and musicmoz url to MB via the webservice  
+
* for creating a new artist musicmoz sends artist, sortname, uuid, and musicmoz url to MB via the webservice
* artists that are linked with musicmoz cannot be changed  
+
* artists that are linked with musicmoz cannot be changed
** if mb users want to edit the name then a note is shown and http POST is done to MM site to request the change  
+
** if mb users want to edit the name then a note is shown and http POST is done to MM site to request the change
** MM editors can edit artist names via the webs service  
+
** MM editors can edit artist names via the webs service
  
* MB cannot delete artist if linked to [[MusicMoz]]  
+
* MB cannot delete artist if linked to [[MusicMoz]]
* [[MusicMoz]] linked artists cannot be merged into another artist. Other way around is ok.  
+
* [[MusicMoz]] linked artists cannot be merged into another artist. Other way around is ok.
  
[[MusicMoz]] new webservice features:  
+
[[MusicMoz]] new webservice features:
* AddArtist  
+
* AddArtist
** Send: name, sortname, moz URL  
+
** Send: name, sortname, moz URL
** Ret: MBID  
+
** Ret: MBID
  
* EditArtist  
+
* EditArtist
** Send: MBID, newname, newsortname  
+
** Send: MBID, newname, newsortname
** Ret: OK  
+
** Ret: OK
  
* PendingActionNotice  
+
* PendingActionNotice
** Send: text, mod id, mod link  
+
** Send: text, mod id, mod link
** ret: ok  
+
** ret: ok
  
Misc Notes:  
+
Misc Notes:
* Can we use FOAF to express musical interest (mail Dan Brickley and cc: RJ) (done)  
+
* Can we use FOAF to express musical interest (mail Dan Brickley and cc: RJ) (done)
* Mail BPM database guy. Our official response is: Hmmm  
+
* Mail BPM database guy. Our official response is: Hmmm
* Once the triple alliance (AS, MB, MM) gets going we should do a press release  
+
* Once the triple alliance (AS, MB, MM) gets going we should do a press release
* May consider adding details of the alliance to the metabrainz pages.  
+
* May consider adding details of the alliance to the metabrainz pages.
* ISMIR: We should submit paper about MB to let the ISMIR crowd know about MB.  
+
* ISMIR: We should submit paper about MB to let the ISMIR crowd know about MB.
  
 
[[Category:To Be Reviewed]] [[Category:Communication Forum]] [[Category:History]] [[Category:Summit]]
 
[[Category:To Be Reviewed]] [[Category:Communication Forum]] [[Category:History]] [[Category:Summit]]

Latest revision as of 20:29, 26 May 2015

Summit Notes

Thursday, November 20th 2003 (Dave and Rob in Bedford)

  • daily.sh
    • Switch data dumps to every other day to save bandwidth
    • Put replication in place and then switch full dumps to once a week
    • Possibly add another replication off site machine to do RDF dumps
    • Synchronize the data dumps/RDF dumps to align with replication packet serial numbers
  • Review of progress on the Advanced Relationships work
    • AdvancedRelationships coming along -- perhaps a week's work (system time) work left to beta.
    • Do a complete event model later
    • Release Events: (complete)
      • Create a new table that covers: release event (optional month/date), territory ISO two letter country code
      • * May optionally add release notes later if need arises
      • * Add a default two letter country code to preferences
    • Consider a general notes concept that allows us to attach notes to any entity
  • Linking to MB
    • Make the artist and release pages use MBIDs to allow weblogs and other pages to easy link to MB.
      • Perhaps create an internal caching scheme to not impact the database looking up slower ids
    • Create a JavaScript method for copying links to MB with icons
    • Consider creating a supercession table to allows forwarding of MBIDs in case releases get merged, deleted, etc.
      • Keep track of last used date and lookup counts to allow pruning this data
  • Discuss necessary changes for the mb_server for replication
    • Use separate user for replication and let this user write to the DB. Normal musicbrainz_user would have no write access on the slaves
    • Add a mirror sever setting to DBDefs.pm
    • Have the login page redirect to the main server.
    • Have the possibility of replicating sanitized moderator information.
    • Deny RDF submits for mirror servers
    • Check out what other pages need to redirect to the main server (reports)
  • Further replication tasks:
    • Schema version # (monotonically increasing, starting at 1)
    • Store current schema version # in DbDefs.pm
    • Require users to hand update from CVS initially if schema version # changes. Later we will add a more automated method for updating.

Friday November 21st 2003

In attendance:

  • Jamie Munro (host)
  • Dave Evans
  • Robert Kaye

Karma system

  • Not all contributions can be redeemed for all benefits. (eg. a cash contribution should not give moderation trust)
  • Contributions:
    • Code, testing, documentation -> leads to developer trust
    • Moderating, voting -> leads to moderator reputation/trust
    • Cash -> leads to cash reputation
    • Referrals via the HTML links to MB -> leads to promotion reputation/trust
  • Benefits
    • automod status can only be archived via mod/vote contributions
    • Advanced tagger features can be accessed by achieving a certain karma level
    • schwag/amazon credit (give out a percent of of $$$ taken in)
    • credit/visibility (visual cues, email@mb alias)
    • Core supporters (identify and credit the core people who make MB happen)

Notes:

  • Use points not cash
  • Core supporters can give points for thinker or other non-tangible contributions
  • Use a weighting system to determine if people qualify for a certain benefit
  • Automod contributions use a sliding window (must maintain votes/mod to maintain status)
  • Cash donations unlock advanced tagger features for a fixed period of time.

Improve voting issues:

  • Finish the one moderation release edit feature
  • Number of votes required to pass a moderation is inversely proportional to quality of the moderator (good moderators will require few or no votes, bad/unknown moderators require more votes)
  • Automoderators can cast more votes than one (moderators can chose how many votes to cast)
  • When logged in, add an iframe to the artist/release pages that shows one moderation to vote on:
    • Show votes for this artist or if none, then
    • Show votes for artists in the subscribed list, or if none, then
    • Show votes for related artists, or if none, then
    • Show random votes

Other suggestions:

  • Jamie suggest that we need to create a mozilla search plugin a la MusicMoz (got to http://mycroft.mozdev.org/ and search for music)
  • Jamie suggest that we should have a type of moderator that is specific to a band -- hopefully a band member. This moderator could have veto power over the changes made to the artist in question.

Saturday November 22nd 2003

In attendance:

Audioscrobbler/Last.fm notes:

  • Audioscrobbler to host own MB database mirror to handle plugin lookups
  • AS plans to integrate tagging features in AS plugins
  • MB tagger should do some statistical gathering to create a graph of tagger accuracy
  • Relationships: Artist to artist and release to release, no track to track because of resource issues. May become possible once MB is fully integrated
  • People to people matching profiles
  • Some moderation voting atop Audioscrobbler pages if required
  • RipCd.pl for RJ and/or add ripping support to Tagger to aid the ripping process of Last.fm
  • Special MB moderator should be created that submits moderations from AS/last.fm
  • How do we share logins?
    • At first AS will require regular MB logins
    • Later we may create a Web service for creating login
    • or share logins with as_username
  • Jamie will contact the Liberty Alliance about single login -- perhaps we can be an example case

MusicMoz:

  • Contains accurate info that doesn't disappear
  • Uses the same structure as dmoz
  • Contains reviews, releases, general info about artist
  • Whole database is a hierarchy.
  • Runs on donated hardware/software
    • requires a new more powerful server for mirror
  • CC license is a question to put to the community, uses DMOZ license currently

MusicMoz integration plan

  • Goal: Add MusicMoz links to the MB website and encourage MB users to participate in MusicMoz
  • initial match of artists and loading: provide artist name, sortname, mbid, releases and release ids to RF
  • for creating a new artist musicmoz sends artist, sortname, uuid, and musicmoz url to MB via the webservice
  • artists that are linked with musicmoz cannot be changed
    • if mb users want to edit the name then a note is shown and http POST is done to MM site to request the change
    • MM editors can edit artist names via the webs service
  • MB cannot delete artist if linked to MusicMoz
  • MusicMoz linked artists cannot be merged into another artist. Other way around is ok.

MusicMoz new webservice features:

  • AddArtist
    • Send: name, sortname, moz URL
    • Ret: MBID
  • EditArtist
    • Send: MBID, newname, newsortname
    • Ret: OK
  • PendingActionNotice
    • Send: text, mod id, mod link
    • ret: ok

Misc Notes:

  • Can we use FOAF to express musical interest (mail Dan Brickley and cc: RJ) (done)
  • Mail BPM database guy. Our official response is: Hmmm
  • Once the triple alliance (AS, MB, MM) gets going we should do a press release
  • May consider adding details of the alliance to the metabrainz pages.
  • ISMIR: We should submit paper about MB to let the ISMIR crowd know about MB.